Would I regret having 2m draft?

[Kelpie]

How long is a bit of string, I know.
We're planning a few years away as liveaboards, perhaps an Atlantic circuit but ideally even further afield.
Considering a fairly wide range of boats (including the one we already have), and going to view/sail a few different types before we commit.
One 'type' that sends to offer a lot of bang for the buck is the 80s JenBens. Plenty about, they look fast and fun, with bags of space. The downsides are the prevalence of spade rudders and quite deep draft.
We've always owned shallow draft boats, so the prospect of a 2m draft is rather daunting. However in our home cruising grounds it would rarely be a big problem.

For those who have cruised extensively on the usual bluewater routes, does a 2m draft mean you miss out on anything?

 

[Tranona]

Only if you want to go to shallow places! Sounds trite, but there are certain locations where 2m is problematic - the Bahamas and many Pacific atolls for example. You often find that people who prefer boats like the Southerly and Ovni justify them because they want to visit shallow places. I chose shallow draft because I wanted to transit the French canals even though for the rest of the time in the Med 2m would not be a big issue except in some of the shallow harbours where there is a lot of ballast at the quay wall.

Otherwise 2m draft is not an issue provided you accept those limitations. Draft has on average increased over the years as designs rely more for stability on hull form and less ballast lower down, so 1,5m which was common for mid 30' boats 30 years ago is now the norm for the optional shallow draft, often with longer chord fins and larger bulbs to maintain ultimate stability but losing some efficiency to windward.

 

[capnsensible]

Hiya. Having cruised or delivered yachts on quite a lot of the blue water routes I would say that a 2 m draft is not a problem.:encouragement:

 

[geem]

We are 2.2m draft. Sailed all over the Caribbean including tha Bahamas. Windward amd Leewards is not a problem. Bahamas is more of a challenge but doable. You just wont get where the shallow draft boats go. For me the advantage of great sailing performance from a good deep draft hull design outways the ability to get in to shallow water.
Here in the Caribbean we have to deal with squalls on a far more frequent basis than you would do in UK waters. Anchoring close to shore increases the risk of ending up on the beach if a 40 kt squall hits in the middle of the night. We choose to anchor further out these days to be away from the mass of anchored boats and in deeper water. If a squall hits we have more time to should we drag our anchor. If big seas enter the anchorage and we want to leave during a squall we are on the right side of the anchored boats for exiting the bay. This may sound pessimistic but its a lesson we have learnt here. If you are of this mind set then deep draft is a none issue.

 

[TQA]

If you plan to run the Intercoastal Waterway one the East coast of the USA then 2 m draft will see you aground from time to time.

As for the rest 2 m is OK IMHO.

 

[sailaboutvic]

If you plan to run the Intercoastal Waterway one the East coast of the USA then 2 m draft will see you aground from time to time.

As for the rest 2 m is OK IMHO.

Our last boat had a 2 mts draft but worst a 2 mts rudder too and a spade rudder at that , we used it in the U.K. On the east coast for a year before heading back to the Med , it wasn't a problem there , I think you quickly get use to it, as everyone has said Long distance sailing a 2 mts draft it fine .

 

[Kelpie]

Perhaps I should have done a poll rather than simply asking- although obviously the balance of views so far is that 2m draft needn't be a problem.
As I've said previously, we have considered just upgrading our current boat, although she is marginal in terms of size. I think there is a bit of a dilemma when choosing a yacht/tender combo- a small yacht can only carry a small tender, but can get closer to shore. A bigger boat has to stay further out but can carry a much more capable tender. So it's all swings and roundabouts. Obviously the 'small' option is going to be much cheaper

Are there any interesting cruising grounds that would be rendered particularly difficult with a deep draft boat? Other than the East Coast obviously

 

[Sandy]

she is marginal in terms of size

What are your criteria for size?

I'm setting my 10 meter boat up for just the trip you are planning, 1.7m draft, planning either single or two handed, with visits from friends and family in port - she sleeps 4 in comfort 6 at a squeeze.

 

[AndrewB]

One other area on the Atlantic Circuit where it would be a problem is among the Florida Keys.

But much depends on your attitude to running aground. If you have a longish, strong keel, a good engine and full-sized prop that will get you off without too much trouble, then a deep draft won't be much of a handicap. If you have a fin keel, unsupported rudder and small engine then you are going to be far too wary, specially around coral, to visit a lot of nice places.

 

[KellysEye]

> the advantage of great sailing performance from a good deep draft hull design outways the ability to get in to shallow water.

Agree.

 

[Kelpie]

What are your criteria for size?

I'm setting my 10 meter boat up for just the trip you are planning, 1.7m draft, planning either single or two handed, with visits from friends and family in port - she sleeps 4 in comfort 6 at a squeeze.

Our current 10m boat was bought when there were only two of us- but now there are three. I am sure that we can make it work, my plan would involve turning the quarter berth into a mini cabin for the wee guy. And she has lots of good points as a liveaboard cruiser, not least a lifting keel allowing minimum draft of only 1.1m. But I know that passage speeds will suffer with a 24ft LWL, and stowage will be an issue, in particular we will have to stick with a small roll up tender.
So we're currently considering upgrading to something a big bigger and newer. Around £35k would get us a wide choice of boats from the 80s up to about 40ft, and the extra volume, passage speeds, and comfort at sea are quite attractive. Obviously it would mean delaying departure and/or having a smaller income whilst cruising, and the potential refit costs of a larger boat will be higher.

But I digress...

 

[doug748]

I don't think you would regret the deeper draught unless you actively want to dry out, maybe on legs. Your present boat is handy for this but if you don't really do it now, you are unlikely to want to suddenly start when you go abroad. However,

Drying the boat out in tidal waters gives you an alternative in poor weather and could save a bundle of money in berthing fees. There are a hundreds of (very beautiful) places that are only properly viable if you can take the ground and thousands that are very attractive and sheltered compared to the hurley burley of anchoring/mooring off.

In the generally former category, check out these on Navionics:
The Avon river at Bantham, in Bigbury Bay Devon
Correjou East of l' AberWrach
Havre de Rotheneuf, east of St Malo

And the latter:
Ile de Brehat
Portsall
Le Palais

It is almost silly to give these examples as there are thousands on our own doorstep.
Most sailors seem to tick off the same old predictable spots and miss a great deal, I am one of them. Maybe that's the appeal of people like Dylan Winter and Charles Stock, cruising is what you make it.

BTW changing your boat, as suggested, will be expensive, don't do it with the expectation that you will go much faster you won't. What you will get is a quarter cabin and better motoring, not to be sniffed at but you will still sail in the average 5kt region.

 

[Wansworth]

One advantage of a bilge Keebler is it will stand alone without call for cradles which might give peace of mind if you have to leave the boat for a while in some port also means work can be carried out below the water.ine without lifting out although in places like Spain you are required to use established facilities.

 

[Kelpie]

Yes we're well aware of the advantages of being able to dry out. The current boat has beaching legs and this is how I do my anti fouling and most other work. In four years of owning her, we've had her lifted just once. So it certainly helps keep our costs down, and avoid the hassle of traveling to a boatyard. An advantage that we would be sad to lose. Then again, we only ever beach on the same spot at home, where I know the drying height, the bottom, and that nobody is going to tell me that I can't work on my boat there.
I'd imagine it's a bit harder to find such a spot once you are away cruising?

 

[Tranona]

No one boat can do all things, so you are danger of seeing barriers that are not there.

There are shallow parts of the world and deep parts. Inevitably the shallow parts are for the most related to estuaries and tidal areas (with some exceptions such as the Bahamas and Florida) or inland waterways. However all of these are joined together with deep water, in many cases effectively tideless such as the Med.

So, you have to decide where you want to go and what appeals to you. If you really want to explore rivers, or transit shallow canals and have the ability to dry out there are boats that are suitable for this, but size and to an extent deep water ability are constraints. Bilge keel Westerlys and Moodys spring to mind as do lift keel Southerlies and all of these have been successfully used for ocean cruising. Suspect, however that if you ask owners of these boats they will probably tell you that they rarely take advantage of the capability to dry out or explore shallow water areas. Perhaps just seemed a good idea at the time or they already had the boat.

As to reducing costs by avoiding haulouts, you can only do this in tidal areas and if there is enough range of tide then you can dry out against a wall with many single keel boats. There are, however other ways of minimising haulouts - for example Coppercoating the bottom


You need to be clear about what is important to you. The pros and cons are already clear, but as you have seen from the other responses, draft is low on the list as an issue for a cruising boat.

You are going to be using your boat in different ways from your current pattern if you do go off long distance cruising, so why let what suits you now influence what you choose for the future? Different usage requires different characteristics of a boat, so choose one that suits the future not the past or present.

 

[TQA]

Well the Pardys would say;-

GO SMALL
GO SIMPLE
GO NOW

 

[Yngmar]

If the choice is between a shallow draft vs. deep draft version of the same monohull (e.g. 1.6m vs. 2m), I'd always go for the deep draft version. There's very little difference in where you can go with one vs. the other, but a big difference in motion and upwind sailing. We've met one German cruising couple in Ceuta that cancelled their plans for an Atlantic circuit because they really didn't like how their shallow draft (bulb) keel boat moved in bigger waves.

When feeling your way into shallow anchorages with tens of centimeters clearance below the keel, the difference is mostly just being able to go a few meters closer to shore. The excitement of doing so is the same and I can't think of any places where a 1.6m draft would've permitted us to enter when our 2m did not.

On the other side, I've often found myself a bit jealous of the ability of multihulls (and lift/swing-keelers) to enter places where we cannot go, and anchor in shallow, more sheltered waters, or find a generous bit of room in an anchorage that's full for monohulls.

The ability to dry out is separate from any of the above, and certainly very useful. We've decided on Coppercoat and scrubbing in the water, but have to haul out every two years to service our saildrive. But much of the world has not got the tidal range or never heard of scrubbing posts.

 

[webcraft]

.
Deep draft skinny keels are fine unless you do accidentally go aground. Then something that would be a mite embarrassment in the Deb or a Vega can become very excpensive or worse. Those skinny, deep keels are powerful potentially keelbolt-ripping levers in a grounding situation, particularly at speed.

Agree with the Pardys - go small, go simple, go now. OK, it's embarrassing always having the smallest boat n the anchorage, but it does give you some bragging rights.

- W

 

[geem]

.
Deep draft skinny keels are fine unless you do accidentally go aground. Then something that would be a mite embarrassment in the Deb or a Vega can become very excpensive or worse. Those skinny, deep keels are powerful potentially keelbolt-ripping levers in a grounding situation, particularly at speed.

Agree with the Pardys - go small, go simple, go now. OK, it's embarrassing always having the smallest boat n the anchorage, but it does give you some bragging rights.
Everybody to their own. For me some comfort is important. I dont want the sailing life to feel like a chore. Once you are living onboard for an extended period of time a little comfort becomes important. The OP wont be doing his two week summer cruise where a bit of indoor camping is perfectly acceptable. He plans to do some extended cruising. For me anything under 38ft for extended living aboard as a couple would be a compromise too far.

- W

 

[AndrewB]

Deep draft skinny keels are fine unless you do accidentally go aground. ... Those skinny, deep keels are powerful potentially keelbolt-ripping levers in a grounding situation, particularly at speed.

Exactly.

Also, a bilge keeler is not a good choice for blue-water cruising. In fact they are rarely seen outside Britain and northern France where they have advantages in the exceptional tides of that region, for example in drying out. Elsewhere in the world tides are much less. It is very much harder to get off if you have accidentally run aground with a bilge keeler unless you have the tide to help.