fireball
Well-Known Member
Charming!
Working up the Mast
- Thread starter alisdair4
- Start date
Superflid
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Just be sure to take the wellies off first. There will be awful floods of tears if they drop off and go over the side.
[/ QUOTE ]
Good point, looks like the biggest danger in that pic.
Just be sure to take the wellies off first. There will be awful floods of tears if they drop off and go over the side.
[/ QUOTE ]
Good point, looks like the biggest danger in that pic.
boatmike
Well-Known Member
It was not an expletive, It was descriptive of your post. You are talking Bollox.
Taking unnecessary and easily avoidable risks for the sake of it is cretinously stupid and warrants no further or more sophisticated comment.
Taking unnecessary and easily avoidable risks for the sake of it is cretinously stupid and warrants no further or more sophisticated comment.
pyrojames
Well-Known Member
Each to his own. If you would like a pint, I will gladly discuss H&S to your face. I too, happen to be a chartered engineer, I work in the marine industry, and ships and in ship yards, I deal with incidents and accidents, and I reserve my judgment to situations where I have as many details as are available.
You clearly feel capable of making judgements and recommendations on situations at which you have not been present, on groups of people which you do not know, and threats to people because they do not agree with you.
Debate assists learning in my opinion, but you appear to react so violently to criticism, I doubt you have the capability of learning any more. That is your loss.
You may PM me, if you wish to take me up on the pint.
You clearly feel capable of making judgements and recommendations on situations at which you have not been present, on groups of people which you do not know, and threats to people because they do not agree with you.
Debate assists learning in my opinion, but you appear to react so violently to criticism, I doubt you have the capability of learning any more. That is your loss.
You may PM me, if you wish to take me up on the pint.
saltwater_gypsy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 13 Jan 2008
- Messages
- 1,946
- Location
- Now back in Scotland . Boat for sale
Anyway, Mirabella V has a lift to take you to the top of the mast. What was the question anyway???
fireball
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Taking unnecessary and easily avoidable risks for the sake of it is cretinously stupid and warrants no further or more sophisticated comment.
[/ QUOTE ]
Taking precautions that far outweigh the risks is also stupid, unfortunately you seem to be so wrapped up in bubblewrap that you cannot see this.
Your comment about using the "swing seat" far outweighed your knowledge of what it was being used for and by whom. No, I wouldn't go to the masthead in one, but I'd happily swing a few feet from the deck in one and let someone in my care do the same if I knew they would hold on.
Without taking calculated risk we wouldn't get the sports we do today ... motor racing, sailing, skiing, snowboarding, cycling, mountain biking - are all risky activities .... the safety gear is applicable to the most usual dangers, but in noway makes the participants invulnerable.
You could remove the risks almost totally by sticking the participants in front of a games console, they can crash as much as they like without getting hurt - but then they'd get RSI ... and it'd be pretty boring to watch and takes much of the skill out of it.
Taking unnecessary and easily avoidable risks for the sake of it is cretinously stupid and warrants no further or more sophisticated comment.
[/ QUOTE ]
Taking precautions that far outweigh the risks is also stupid, unfortunately you seem to be so wrapped up in bubblewrap that you cannot see this.
Your comment about using the "swing seat" far outweighed your knowledge of what it was being used for and by whom. No, I wouldn't go to the masthead in one, but I'd happily swing a few feet from the deck in one and let someone in my care do the same if I knew they would hold on.
Without taking calculated risk we wouldn't get the sports we do today ... motor racing, sailing, skiing, snowboarding, cycling, mountain biking - are all risky activities .... the safety gear is applicable to the most usual dangers, but in noway makes the participants invulnerable.
You could remove the risks almost totally by sticking the participants in front of a games console, they can crash as much as they like without getting hurt - but then they'd get RSI ... and it'd be pretty boring to watch and takes much of the skill out of it.
narooma
Well-Known Member
To Damo:- an assender, despite its name, works both up and down
.........................................................................................
To Petergibbs:-
Quote:"I long ago did away with the so-called second safety halyard approach"
I agree that using a second line is an added chore but along with the lifejacket, flares and liferaft most people will put up with the slight inconvenience for the peace of mind and the small %age chance of something going wrong.
Like car insurance, its a pain ..until you need it.
.........................................................................................
To Petergibbs:-
Quote:"I long ago did away with the so-called second safety halyard approach"
I agree that using a second line is an added chore but along with the lifejacket, flares and liferaft most people will put up with the slight inconvenience for the peace of mind and the small %age chance of something going wrong.
Like car insurance, its a pain ..until you need it.
pyrojames
Well-Known Member
A question? Was there a question here? Quick take it out and have it shot! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
bendyone
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
To Damo:- an assender, despite its name, works both up and down
.........................................................................................
To Petergibbs:-
Quote:"I long ago did away with the so-called second safety halyard approach"
I agree that using a second line is an added chore but along with the lifejacket, flares and liferaft most people will put up with the slight inconvenience for the peace of mind and the small %age chance of something going wrong.
Like car insurance, its a pain ..until you need it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Take a look at my photos not only was my daughter in a "proper" bosons chair she had a second line attached. I wouldn't go up without a second line just in case.
To Damo:- an assender, despite its name, works both up and down
.........................................................................................
To Petergibbs:-
Quote:"I long ago did away with the so-called second safety halyard approach"
I agree that using a second line is an added chore but along with the lifejacket, flares and liferaft most people will put up with the slight inconvenience for the peace of mind and the small %age chance of something going wrong.
Like car insurance, its a pain ..until you need it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Take a look at my photos not only was my daughter in a "proper" bosons chair she had a second line attached. I wouldn't go up without a second line just in case.
Jock89
Well-Known Member
Nice to see a mention of Ganges there.!
I loved going up that mast & used to spend as much free time as possible sat up on the 'Button' hanging on to the lightning conductor with one hand. Always did have a good head for heights.
Used to let go & stand up as well.! That was mid-'58, long before elfansafety & I'd love to do that again.!
Jock
I loved going up that mast & used to spend as much free time as possible sat up on the 'Button' hanging on to the lightning conductor with one hand. Always did have a good head for heights.
Used to let go & stand up as well.! That was mid-'58, long before elfansafety & I'd love to do that again.!
Jock
damo
Well-Known Member
"an assender, despite its name, works both up and down"
An ascender, because of it's name, is designed to ascend. It can be used to downclimb but is a complete PITA, because of the need to hold the toothed cam back and hold it at such an angle that it doesn't snag.
A Shunt can also be used to ascend, but it's main function is as a "dead man's handle", to provide protection on a back up rope. It will slide down easily, but only while the camming bar is held open, and is MUCH easier to use in descent than an ascender.
An ascender, because of it's name, is designed to ascend. It can be used to downclimb but is a complete PITA, because of the need to hold the toothed cam back and hold it at such an angle that it doesn't snag.
A Shunt can also be used to ascend, but it's main function is as a "dead man's handle", to provide protection on a back up rope. It will slide down easily, but only while the camming bar is held open, and is MUCH easier to use in descent than an ascender.
boatmike
Well-Known Member
I am interested that there is someone here that is knowledgable about climbing. Avoiding reference to those who appear to think harnesses and safety lines are a waste of time and taking deliberate risks is "a learning process" you will see from my posts that my main experience is related to working in shipyards and on vessels with plenty of hands available to man safety lines.
My question for you is this. I have a cat with a 43ft mast that has steps all the way up. I am often single handed. Up until now I have climbed easily (not needing winching up) but have worn a fully harnessed bosuns chair tied (not shackled) to a halyard as a safety device and to enable me to be secure at the masthead sitting in it to work with both hands free. Would the "shunt" you mention be a safe way of providing security while climbing on my own? If so how would you go about it? would the safety rope be free at the bottom or attached? Winched up tight or left slack to allow the device to work? I am relatively fit and agile still but I am 65 and trying hard for 66! Any advice welcome. Oh and if you think it's a good idea, where can I buy one in the Solent area please?
My question for you is this. I have a cat with a 43ft mast that has steps all the way up. I am often single handed. Up until now I have climbed easily (not needing winching up) but have worn a fully harnessed bosuns chair tied (not shackled) to a halyard as a safety device and to enable me to be secure at the masthead sitting in it to work with both hands free. Would the "shunt" you mention be a safe way of providing security while climbing on my own? If so how would you go about it? would the safety rope be free at the bottom or attached? Winched up tight or left slack to allow the device to work? I am relatively fit and agile still but I am 65 and trying hard for 66! Any advice welcome. Oh and if you think it's a good idea, where can I buy one in the Solent area please?
damo
Well-Known Member
I haul climbing rope up the mast and tie off the halyards, so I don't have to climb the halyards and add to their wear. If I was going to use just a halyard I would tie both ends at the bottom, with enough tension that all the slack was taken out.
The shunt is clipped to the harness, usually with a short strop (NB climbing spec rope/webbing!), and attached to the rope. As you climb then you slide the shunt up with you, and in the event of a fall it will stop you straight away. When descending, a short cord on the camming bar, held in one hand, allows the shunt to slide down with you - let go of the cord and the shunt jams again.
If you want technical data on backup systems then try here:
www.rope-access.co.uk/docs/RA_Testing_Paper.pdf
Data sheet and instructions for the Petzel Shunt here:
http://www.rigtechnology.co.uk/detail.aspx?intP_ID=67
(The pics are for rope ascent/descent, but you can see the principle)
Any outdoor gear shop should be able to supply, and umpteen places online /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif . Don't forget that the shunt is a mechanical version of the prussic knot, which will also do the job, but isn't so good at holding a shockload. There is a better gripping knot, which is also much easier to tie and release - the autoblock (or French prussic) eg http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/prusik.htm . I sometimes use it instead of a rolling hitch because it grips a lot better and can be released under load (if you tie it in a certain sneaky way /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
Good luck - and I hope I will be going up my mast like you in a few years time /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The shunt is clipped to the harness, usually with a short strop (NB climbing spec rope/webbing!), and attached to the rope. As you climb then you slide the shunt up with you, and in the event of a fall it will stop you straight away. When descending, a short cord on the camming bar, held in one hand, allows the shunt to slide down with you - let go of the cord and the shunt jams again.
If you want technical data on backup systems then try here:
www.rope-access.co.uk/docs/RA_Testing_Paper.pdf
Data sheet and instructions for the Petzel Shunt here:
http://www.rigtechnology.co.uk/detail.aspx?intP_ID=67
(The pics are for rope ascent/descent, but you can see the principle)
Any outdoor gear shop should be able to supply, and umpteen places online /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif . Don't forget that the shunt is a mechanical version of the prussic knot, which will also do the job, but isn't so good at holding a shockload. There is a better gripping knot, which is also much easier to tie and release - the autoblock (or French prussic) eg http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/prusik.htm . I sometimes use it instead of a rolling hitch because it grips a lot better and can be released under load (if you tie it in a certain sneaky way /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
Good luck - and I hope I will be going up my mast like you in a few years time /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
boatmike
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that Damo. Much appreciated.
Mike
Mike
fireball
Well-Known Member
Deliberate or Calculated risks
[ QUOTE ]
Avoiding reference to those who appear to think harnesses and safety lines are a waste of time and taking deliberate risks is "a learning process"
[/ QUOTE ]
You mis understand me - harness/safety lines are not a waste of time - I always have a safety line on going up the mast (I hoist a 3:1 block&tackle on the spinny halyard first, then with the main halyard as a safety line I pull myself up in a proper bosuns chair - one day I'll change it for a harness, but not on my urgent list yet).
Risks can be worth taking - but they should be calculated risks - not deliberate life endangering risks - your attitude to risk is obviously far different to mine, but (without trying to be rude) I'm young and fit (ish) and quite happy with heights - I could descend down my mast without lines if I really had to - heck I climbed to the spreaders un-aided when we first got her (still had a safety line on though) - again, calculated risk for the job I was doing in the time that I had with due consideration for the weather and the people on board.
[ QUOTE ]
Avoiding reference to those who appear to think harnesses and safety lines are a waste of time and taking deliberate risks is "a learning process"
[/ QUOTE ]
You mis understand me - harness/safety lines are not a waste of time - I always have a safety line on going up the mast (I hoist a 3:1 block&tackle on the spinny halyard first, then with the main halyard as a safety line I pull myself up in a proper bosuns chair - one day I'll change it for a harness, but not on my urgent list yet).
Risks can be worth taking - but they should be calculated risks - not deliberate life endangering risks - your attitude to risk is obviously far different to mine, but (without trying to be rude) I'm young and fit (ish) and quite happy with heights - I could descend down my mast without lines if I really had to - heck I climbed to the spreaders un-aided when we first got her (still had a safety line on though) - again, calculated risk for the job I was doing in the time that I had with due consideration for the weather and the people on board.