Woolverstone Marina - unethical behavior or to be expected?

[trailer_dave]

A while ago I took my trailer sailor to Woolverstone to launch, before sailing down to Shotley where we have a berth. We were there a little after high tide, and paid the slip dues. The boat had just been trailed down from Rochdale after a refit, so it took a while to rig. When ready, the slip still looked fine so we went for sunday lunch at their restaurant.

You know what happens next - the trailer was let down the slip, but horror of horrors the silt at the bottom prevented it from going deep enough to launch. Damn!

OK, boat back up the slip, back to the office. A rueful smile from the guy behind the counter, with the comment that we weren't the first to be caught. We discuss the slip dues, and he says "no problem, I'll write on it so you can use again". I was thinking of hooking up and trailing down to Shotley (btw, no slip at Shotley), which is a 15 minute drive with trailer, until we could try again, and he suggests leaving the boat there. I say that we can't come back for a couple of weeks, and he says "that's OK".

We discuss where to leave the boat, though not really an issue as Woolverstone has a huge hard. As we are leaving he asks us to fill in a 'customer requirements form' which I did, assuming it was so they had a record of the fact the boat was going to be left there.

2 weeks later we couldn't return, due to family commitments, so it became 4 weeks. Launched OK, end of story - or so we thought.

A month later we get a bill for £111 for storage ashore. Mmm, say I. My wife calls to complain, and basically told "we are not a charity".

My view is that mistakes were made on both sides - we should have been told on arrival that we only had a few hours of slip available. We wouldn't have had lunch, and launching would have been successful. Secondly, they should have said that while I could leave the boat there, it would cost £5 per metre per week (or whatever it was). At that point we'd have done the maths and decided to trail the boat.

Our mistake was not to ask the explicit question - will we be charged? the conversation was so casual that fees didn't cross my mind - as we left my wife commented on how nice and helpful the chap was.

Their view is that no-one should expect to be given free storage, and the form I signed had at the bottom had words "to be invoiced".

In view of the fact that we both made mistakes I suggested to halve the bill. This fell on deaf ears.

I understand they are a business - but ethical businesses make it clear what charges they apply and in what circumstances. And if they supply a service ie the slip, then on payment one should be told on how long the slip is available. As an aside, when we returned 4 weeks later we were told that we only had 2 hours. So we quickly launched, tied up, and again had lunch.

Any views? Should I just cough up, after making note to self to avoid the marina like the plague in the future? Was I just naive in the extreme?

Cheers,

David

So

 

[jonic]

Well I sympathise with you and If it were me, in those circumstances and as it's clearly a misunderstanding/nativity on your part, I would have halved your bill.

But I don't think they should be obliged to. You missed the slip, but they gave you a credit. You left your boat there and signed for it to be invoiced and then were two weeks late so the mistakes aren't theirs really. I think 99% of boaters would expect to pay to leave a boat tied up or ashore somewhere, especially if that place is a marine business.

I do know how you feel though. Similar things have happened to me and you hope to be cut some slack, as you would do the same, but not everyone is like that unfortunately.

 

[aquaholic]

I would have to agree with jonic, although not sure I would halved your bill. This is always a problem when a leisurly past time meets with hard nosed business.
I think I would have expected to have been charged for storage and enquired at the time, but each to their own, we all have different expectations.
Also think I would have launched before having lunch as the tide was on the ebb, but horses for courses so they say.

 

[davidwf]

In fairness to Woolverstone you did leave the boat there for 4 weeks, I think that the bill at £25 a week is fair given that for that you had hard standing and the benefit of 24 hour a day security.

Plus you were using Woolverstone to get your boat launched to keep it at Shotley a rival Marina, seems only fair that you were charged. Bit like parking your car in the Vauxhall Garage whilst it is waiting for a service at the Ford garage next door.

Now as to wether or not you were told that is a different matter although in the office on the wall are leaflets clearly stating the charges.

 

[shmoo]

We left Wooverstone because of the awful attitude of the manager there. The staff were wonderful but the guy running the place seems to have done his customer relations training with the Territorial Support Group.

Couple of examples.
They decided one day to not sell diesel in cans (way before red/tax and all that). After a lengthy "discussion" he retorts "it is my diesel and I will sell it how I choose"

Another time I turned up to check on the boat in a strong westerly blow to find it away from its usual berth. Went of office to find out where it was only to discover him watching it grinding its fenders in an exposed berth, just below the office window, broadside to the wind. "Those fenders aren't going to last long" he said calmly. I asked if, since they had moved it to its present unsuitable position, could they lend me a couple of big fenders until I could get some and help me push the boat off to squeeze them in. "No, that is your responsibility" came the reply.

We left shortly afterwards.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

No Dave, its not unethical. It's you being unrealistic expecting to leave your trailer and boat there f.o.c. The fee strikes me as not unreasonable either.

You comment that you should have asked " will we be charged?" . Do you really expect any business to let you park your boat there for a a month and not make a charge? Your question should have been " how much?".

 

[Elemental]

I have to agree with the sentiments above. Expecting to use their facilities without paying for it is unreasonable. I'm not sure I would have halved the bill either. The level of their charges (and Woolverstone's are the highest around the Orwell) is not really relevant - it's a matter of principle. Plus it wouldn't be fair to everyone else (self included) who pay the full whack to keep their boat there.

As for avoiding them "like the plague in future" that is, of course, your prerogative but I think that any other marina would have done exactly the same thing. However, in the future I would suggest you

1. Keep focussed on the job in hand
2. Pay attention to documents you sign.

I would just pay up and, if you still feel strongly about it after reading these replies, write a letter to Trevor Barnes (who I have always found to be reasonable enough) suggesting improvements.

 

[fireball]

Your fault you missed the slip ...

Joint fault for you - not enquiring about the cost of leaving the boat there and them - not offering the price upfront.

Storage price isn't huge though - so unless you don't intend to use them again I'd pay up - but as suggested above - write a letter of 'complaint' if the storage charges were not made known to you initally (check they haven't got 'standard charges' posted on the wall for you to read!)

 

[Oceanis]

Afraid I have to agree with the view that in today's world you have been naive in thinking you would get a freebe for four week's storage at a marina. I think it's a case of pay up and put it down to experience.

Having said that, SWMBO managed to surpirse some customers in a chandlers when she got something for free..........a rubber band!!!!

 

[Koeketiene]

I was thinking of hooking up and trailing down to Shotley (btw, no slip at Shotley), which is a 15 minute drive with trailer, until we could try again, and he suggests leaving the boat there. I say that we can't come back for a couple of weeks, and he says "that's OK".

Of course he's going to say it's OK - he's already thinking ££££

Given the fact that you have a berth at Shotley (I believe hard storage is included) and that there's no such thing as a free lunch (Woolverstone is an MPL marina after all) I would have trailered down to Shotley.

No brainer really.

 

[nmeyrick]

Hang on a minute, sounds to me like the OP has been scammed. Naive also, without a doubt, and I don't think that he would argue with this.

But remember he could have taken his boat the 15m drive away to the spot he has already paid for, and only decided not to after the helpful guy at the marina told him not to worry, just leave it here. He has then been sent an invoice withouht being even shown any schedule of charges. I'm no lawyer but have studied a very small amount of law, and this sounds to me a lot like those people who send you cleaning products unsolicited, then bill you for them.

I have to agree that for the amount I would be tempeted to just chalk it down to experience, but there is also a matter of principle involved. If you wanted to investigate the legality of this I would be googling for information on the Sale of Goods Act (also covers services) or talking to trading standards or Citizens' Advice.

 

[Elemental]

OP Scammed?

Their view is that no-one should expect to be given free storage, and the form I signed had at the bottom had words "to be invoiced".

Doesn't sound quite the same as unsolicited invoicing...

I'm not especially trying to paint the OP as a 'baddy' in this debate - clearly he should have expected to pay and perhaps asked about charges, but equally clearly the he WAS unaware of the charges involved and the marina should have made them clear at the outset (it may be that the price list is displayed in the office somewhere - I haven't looked lately).

Does that equate to a scam or unethical behaviour? I think not.

I still think payment with a constructive letter (not 'complaint') is the best option.

 

[trailer_dave]

All - thanks for the comments. I won't argue that I was naive - having recently had a sailing holiday in Greece I was probably still in the 'people are friendly and helpful' mode. Bosun H - you asked if I expected to to leave a boat free for 2 weeks (remember that was my intention at the time) - well, yes, if the marina officer casually says "you could just leave it here if you want" after I mention hooking up to go to Shotley. Tone, way its said. After all, leaving it there doesn't cost W any more in their costs (and no, not implying that hardstanding should be free at all times to all visitors).

I will cough up - though still annoyed that on arrival I wasn't warned about the limited time I had available.

Still, silver linings and all that - we were thinking of using Woolverstone as our base next year to avoid the locking in and out at Shotley. Based on this and comments above I think we'll stay put.

Thanks again,

David

 

[nmeyrick]

Doesn't sound quite the same as unsolicited invoicing...

Hmm, businesses ask people to sign all sorts of stuff, often with legally sounding words like "To be invoiced" or "I disclaim all rights if I die as a result of your negligence" but they do not necessarily have any legal meaning.

The Sale of Goods Act and Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts Act exist because government recognises that organisations have a disproportionate power over consumers, and have been put in place to prevent them exploiting that imbalance. Of course that is not to say that it doesn't happen but in general people's statutory rights are far stronger than they often realise.

I think that the salient thing here is that the guy was planning to take the boat away until the marina staff told him "Its fine, you can leave it here" which is very different from "If you wanted to pay £x you could leave it here".

Agreed its not clear cut and I think that there is fault on both sides, but the marina really does appear to be trying to mislead. All of that of course assumes that the story as it is told is a fair reflection of what actually happened.

 

[Dazedkipper]

Woolverstone = MD = nuff said!

 

[timbartlett]

in general people's statutory rights are far stronger than they often realise.

Yes, but businesses have rights too.

I think that the salient thing here is that the guy was planning to take the boat away until the marina staff told him "Its fine, you can leave it here" which is very different from "If you wanted to pay £x you could leave it here".

So whenever a member of staff offers you something, you assume that means it's free, do you?
Does that apply to the waiter asking if you would like anything to drink with your meal?
Does it apply to the garage asking if you'd like them to replace your tyres that are near the limit?

 

[trailer_dave]

Tim,
don't be silly - compare apples to apples not apples to go-karts!
In your examples it would cost the restaurant and garage to give me anything, so of course one expects to pay.
In this case it costs W zilch to let my boat stay there, hence my surprise. Remember, none of this would have happened if I'd been told how long the slip was useable.
Interesting views expressed by all.
David

 

[timbartlett]

Tim,
don't be silly - compare apples to apples not apples to go-karts!
In your examples it would cost the restaurant and garage to give me anything, so of course one expects to pay.
In this case it costs W zilch to let my boat stay there, hence my surprise. Remember, none of this would have happened if I'd been told how long the slip was useable.
Interesting views expressed by all.
David

Actually, I don't think I'm being at all silly.

You seem to be expecting that a business whose primary "product" is boat storage should store your boat free of charge, for as long as you care to leave it there. Why? What makes you different from all their other customers?

As it was, the original two weeks grew into a month. Suppose it had grown into two months, then three... then a whole season. At what point would you have thought it was OK to start charging -- only when the bill reached £222? or £333? or £666?

You seem to be blaming the marina staff
(a) for not realising that you were planning to wander off and have lunch, rather than launching your boat before the tide fell (did you think to ask anyone?)
(b) not realising that taking the boat away again would not involve a 250 mile trip back to Rochdale. (Faced with a choice between a second 250 mile tow in one day and a £55 bill for two weeks storage, I know which I would choose!)

If you expect them to read your mind to that extent, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect you to read theirs to the extent of thinking "yes, they might be expecting me to pay for the service that they are in business to provide"

 

[ribrage]

Trailer Dave its Hardly un ethical for a marina to charge for boat storage, thats what they do to earn a living (or am i missing something) it would be like your employers or me asking you to do what ever it is you do to earn a living..... but do it for free for the next 4 weeks.

And as for the comment above stating that it hasnt cost the marina anything to store the boat there, you must be joking, take a look around at all the facilities that are in situ the concrete slips the parking facilities the security fencing, the staff offices ....etc etc.

Why choose to stop for lunch prior to launching, if i was watching a falling tide on a slipway , i wouldnt be stalling the launch for a spot of lunch .. tide and time wait for no man !

whilst the prices in the UK are expensive they are a simple matter of supply and demand. You pay your money and take your chances, in this case I think you need to just take it on the chin and pay them.

 

[Koeketiene]

(b) not realising that taking the boat away again would not involve a 250 mile trip back to Rochdale. (Faced with a choice between a second 250 mile tow in one day and a £55 bill for two weeks storage, I know which I would choose!)

That's just it - OP has a fully paid berth (including hard standing) at Shotley. Five miles down the road.

If he had been made aware there would be a charge, I very much doubt he would have left his boat at Woolverstone.