Wooden Hulls - advice needed

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Dave2

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I am looking at buying a 50-60' motor boat to use as a live aboard. My purchase budget extends to some older f/g types from the 1980s and also some older and larger wooden hulled boats. I must admit to being a little concerned about wooden hulls (apologies to those more knowledgeable than me!). In particular, the structural integrity aspect of wooden construction on old boats. Could someone with a good (and proper unbiaised) knowledge of this subject please advise me of the pitfalls of buying an older wooden hulled boat (such as a 1970 Versilcraft 55/57 etc)? Is it feasible to glass/epoxy/gelcoat a wooden hull to enhance its waterproof integrity?
Thanks folks.

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You will get some excellent advice if you post this on classic boat forum (go to Main Index above left, and select Classic Boat from drop down list), where the wooden boat owners like Mirelle tend to hang out.

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni
 
You called?

I am posting this here because, were you to go over to the Classic Boat forum and contact CC Scott, you would find that the very experienced owner of perhaps the very nicest 55ft wooden hulled liveaboard motor sailer would be in a position to offer excellent advice!

She's a Silver, built by James Silver at Rosneath to the designs of John Bain. These are, in terms of wooden hulled motor boats, the equivalent of "Rolls-Royce" in vintage cars.

<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?
 
Get a good survey, take the surveyors advice, and you won't go far wrong. I'm not a wooden boat expert but I have had wooden boats since 1987 with no problems. If it bit of superstructure goes soft your local shipwright will just cut it out and stick back another bit.

The REAL trick to owning a wooden boat is to buy a boat in good condition and keep it that way. A little TLC often and the big bills will stay away. Let repairs start to build up and with a wood boat the problems will spread; five years down the road you won't give it away. A little and often!

<hr width=100% size=1>John
http://www.on-line-marine.com
 
Re: You called?

We should of course ask the oracle himself, and I agree she's the nicest 55 or 57 footer, also agree she's a John Bain design, but I don't think she a Silver. She's quite a late boat, (1972??), and not out of Silvers yard. (Sooner rather than later I shall probably be corrected).

<hr width=100% size=1>John
http://www.on-line-marine.com
 
Re: You called?

unfortunately he's only just posted to say he's offline for a few weeks!

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni
 
wood boats have special requirements and knowledge of them, would think that you might gain more wood boat knowledge before getting something that big, esp since it will require yard workers to repair and could lead to large expences you may not wish to pay later.....just my thoughts.

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Re: You called?

I thought she was the last big boat built at the silver yard by which time James Silver had gone?

Undoubtedly the finest boat of its type.

<hr width=100% size=1>My house is for sale, 2 beds, Hamble.
 
I couldnt agree more - a good survey is even more important with a wooden hull! I learnt this the hard way when buying a Bates Starcraft with double diagonal mahogany planked hull. The 'cheap survey' indicated a couple of planks needed attention but otherwise the hull was sound. 18 months later a routine lift out with examination by a specialist boatuilder indicated extensive replanking was required at an estimated cost of £20K plus! You can get a lot of boat for your money but you need to be cautious. I would never skimp on a survey again!

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Ply or tree wood?

Be aware there is a big difference between a "Silver" (mentioned below) and the average Italian Med' cruiser of similar age.
Rather like Rolls Royce vs Fiat.

3 main types of timber construction. Others more knowledgeable will correct me as necessary.
1. Proper tree wood - Teak (best), mahogany, Pitch Pine, etc.
2. Hot (or cold) moulded veneers - thin strips of tree wood bonded with resin.
3. Plywood.
Personall I would go for 1. first but boats such as Faireys used 2. with good lasting results. I would not touch an elderly plywood boat whether or not sheathed (nylon or grp).

If you are not familiar with timber seek advice (expert).

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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Is it feasible to glass/epoxy/gelcoat a wooden hull to enhance its waterproof integrity

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Yes it is, provided it's sound to start with.
Google "West System" (GRP) or "Cascover Sheathing" (nylon).


<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Nobody is perfect.
I am nobody.
Therefore I am perfect.</font size=1> /forums/images/icons/wink.gif
 
Re: Ply or tree wood?

Also, if planning to spend a long time parked in the sun, pine is not the best. Good for northern waters boats and fine for a summer in the sun, but not a good choice for semi-houseboat liveaboards seeking the sun.



<hr width=100% size=1>John
http://www.on-line-marine.com
 
Re: You called?

Ah-hemm, coughs, pauses to put on best pedantry anorak, consults large heavy book and copies as follows:

"Englander" TwnScKch, Owner L W Blair, Registered Southampton, Home port Rochester, built by L W Blair at Upnor 1971 to the design of John Bain M.R.I.N.A.
2 oil engines each 6cyl, 100 bhp, Perkins '68 (Lloyds Register of Yachts 1982)

Places thumb on nose and wiggles fingers in a very rude manner in a generally Southerly direction, and ducks.

<hr width=100% size=1>John
http://www.on-line-marine.com
 
Re: You called?

Ah well, in that case I bow to your superior knowledge.

Still my point holds, she is one of the finest although I fancy an Ormidale.



<hr width=100% size=1>My house is for sale, 2 beds, Hamble.
 
Thanks all. There is some very interesting advice there. Beachbum, a useful link, thanks. Has anyone had any experience that they can pass on about sealing an old (late 1970s/early 1980s) wooden hull with glass/epoxy and how successful it has been?

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Re: You called?

Personally I'd prefer Englander. She has a slightly quirky wheelhouse layout, or she did when I was last aboard which is a long time ago, but she's less old fashioned than the big Silvers.

Although not so "yachty" I remain at heart a Herd and Mackenzie fan, although you could force me into a Bultjer. Essentially a yacht built trawler type.



<hr width=100% size=1>John
http://www.on-line-marine.com
 
Unless you've got a deep pocket of cash I would say don't bother. I have a lifeboat that has been sheathed, but she was dried in controlled conditions for ages first, and sheathed in the same painstaking way, and fortunately they didn't try to do the deck.

The short cut to supposed freedom of effort and maintenance is usually the opposite, even more so when it's done on the deck. Any tiny spot where the sheathing doesn't adhere perfectly will be a moisture filled cooker that will rot the boat from the inside.

If the boat is a converted trawler type and you're not looking for a yacht finish, then do as the fisherman do, keep the paint fresh and and maintenance up-to-date and enjoy it. Keeping a yacht finish is time consuming and expensive and doesn't enhance the protection anymore than your own less fastidious brush strokes will.

<hr width=100% size=1>John
http://www.on-line-marine.com
 
er, well, there is no easy solution, a wooden boat requires to be looked after, long term, the best future for a wooden boat is to give it the maintenance and repairs it requires rather than covering it in epoxy or anything else. if rot is endemic in the wood it will carry on a pace despite any kind of sheathing.

Also, it depends very much on construction, for instance, a hot or cold moulded construction lends itself very well to being epoxy coated as the structure tends to be much more stable than the movement between planks of a conventionally built boat, epoxy sheathing is not suitable for clinker construction at all as they rely on the wood swelling to make them watertight.

It depends on the use too, sat on a berth resting on the mud each tide will not put so much strain on the hull and bashing into a force 8, if you push the boat through any kind of sea and the hul lis 'working' and epoxy coating is not likely to help much.

If you are looking for a low maintenace liveaboard then go for grp, if you want to take pride in the ownership of a wooden boat and are prepared to make the effort and to learn how to look after it then do that.

I am a wooden boat owner, is never ending, little and often.

<hr width=100% size=1>My house is for sale, 2 beds, Hamble.
 
I've just noticed that you were worried about waterproof integrity. Well all boats CAN leak, but I've never had a wooden boat that didn't leak more from the places she's supposed to than those where she wasn't. Stern tube, chain locker etc.

My Herd and Mackenzie did make a gallon or so of water a day from somewhere on passage, but never while idle in port, and previous owners had tried to trace it and failed. It never bothered me and I went through a Force 9 in her.

Wooden boats have been around a very long time, no need to think that because they're planked they're going to go straight to the bottom first time out of port.

<hr width=100% size=1>John
http://www.on-line-marine.com
 
Go for glass.My in local river(where Englander was born)the creeks are full of rotting wooden hulks,many allegedly being restored.Several classic cases in Faversham creek./forums/images/icons/laugh.gifOnly decent sized liveaboards were working craft.Most wooden commercial craft were worked to death before being abandoned.I doubt if many of the sailing barges you see sailing today have a match sticks worth of original wood left in em.All have to be fixed at heart stopping rates by fast disappearing craftsmen.
Glass fibre will see you out.
Real problem will be finding a berth at a yard able or prepared to accept an old wooden boat,no matter what the condition.
In order to get berth you will need insurance,this means out of the water survey every 5 years or so,is there somewhere able to do this nearbye.Sorry to be so negative.
Hint.My little brother has a houseboat.All in IMHO.

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