wooden cleats - advice please

sarabande

sarabande

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I want to add a couple of big cleats both for'd and aft for towing/mooring purposes, and am minded to use some kiln-dried oak leftovers I have in the sawmill.

Q1. Is oak a suitable wood for cleats? I can resin them easily as they can be brought down to low single figures by leaving in the kiln. Humidit induced movement is not an issue as they will only be about 9 inches long. If oak not suitable, what about ash, oeven good ply ?

Q2. The best angle for grain concerns me. Most strain will be horizontal, so grain running lengthwise seems best, but occasionally strain is more vertical, and I don't want the 'ears' to snap off.


Or should I just go for metal ones ? I am not precious about stainless steel polished by time-served Huguenot apprentices using handwoven silk; alloy ali, or steel is fine by me.
 
Aluminium ones are good, never need varnishing, won't break, for your size you may even get them with 4 holding down bolts which will be much stronger than wooden ones with only 2 bolts. Don't forget to fit a large backing pad underneath.
 
PetiteFleur said:
Aluminium ones are good, never need varnishing, won't break, for your size you may even get them with 4 holding down bolts which will be much stronger than wooden ones with only 2 bolts. Don't forget to fit a large backing pad underneath.
Click to expand...
Just checked, Holt do 10" Alumi ium cleats with 4 fixing holes at £29.95(on ebay)
 
Aluminium is usually more expensive than stainless for cleats. Stainless 200mm with 4 fixing bolts from Force 4 is £18.95. Alternative and perhaps more fitting for your boat is galvanised. Personally would not use wood in this application. OK for shets and halyards but not for mooring and towing loads.
 
parsifal said:
Eric Hiscock, in 'Cruising Under Sail', recommends this type:
http://www.woodcleats.co.uk/extra-secure-wood-cleats/
Click to expand...

Those are Martin cleats, and considerably stronger than standard two-hole ones in view of the ability to bolt down the ends of the base as well as the middle. We put more curvature in the horns than the ones pictured, so that crossing turns of line lie flatter. I can't be clear, but it looks like some of the ones pictured could be made from softwood -- you definitely want hardwood, and oak should be fine. Horizontal-running grain is also essential. Don't go for kiln-dried, use air-dried to 10-15%.

A 9" cleat is not very big (although I don't know the size of the boat they'll be on). But since you say "towing" as well as mooring, I'm assuming she's a large enough vessel that you want to tow a dinghy, and a vessel that size would need at least 12" cleats if of wood.

Also, whatever the material you use for them, make sure to bolt the cleats either through deck beams, or through backing-plates that span between deck beams and are bolted to them. Finally, angle the cleats at about 15° or so to the direction of pull, to keep turns from jamming under the horns.

Mike
 
I would think oak cleats would be fine. (mmine are all plastic) The grain would run horizontal and the top part of the cleat could be separate or part of the same block. The through bolting top to under deck means that it should all be held together in a strong manner. Interesting the cleats in the link are obviously for cleating a thin line around the cleat several times. hence the shape if the aperture. This is fine but not suitable for larger ropes. I would tend to the square shaped aperture rather than the vee shaped in link. This will give more room for larger ropes for a given cleat size. I imagine the cleat might really be used more like a sampson post thatn for cleating a rope. good luck olewill
 
If you really want timber cleats then Oak will be fine.
However, you need to make the base extra long so the fixings have a good bit of timber between them and the end of the base (Don't ask me why).

The top of the cleat needs to long enough for 3 fixing holes and whole thing should be wider rather than slimmer to take any side loading.

It should be well coated/soaked in epoxy to prevent any water ingress. Warming the timber before applying the Epoxy will improve the penetration. it is MOST important that the timber is a dry as possible at this point.

It will also need to varnished with a very high UV blocking varnish.

It will also require regular end of season maintenance.

Personally I would be looking for a heavy duty aluminium cleat.

Good luck and fair winds.
 
wooden cleats break, alloy don't

over the last 40 years we have had to replace all of the cleats on dad's boat - teak, two bolts - sure, usually when a boatyard puts a line on from the side rather than from the accompanying fairleads. many of them more replaced than once

alloy cleats on our boat look original however (same vintage)

the wood often splits between the base and the top bit, so unsure that the 4 bolt cleats will be much more secure. or the cleats just disintegrate. always s/s bolts so not due to them corroding.

mind you i have a spare teak bar top to make new ones now, as i can't persuade my dad to fit alloy (and forget)

(dumbarton if anyone else wants a bit)
 
thanks for all the contributions and sharing hard-won knowledge.


I shall stick with metal cleats, but just for the halibut, will have a go at making a couple of wooden ones. Simple exploratory fun with the bandsaw and pillar drill :)

Quit
 
PetiteFleur said:
Aluminium ones are good, never need varnishing, won't break, for your size you may even get them with 4 holding down bolts which will be much stronger than wooden ones with only 2 bolts. Don't forget to fit a large backing pad underneath.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid aluminum ones will break - and commonly do when people connect to only one horn.
Usually in storm-surge conditions (uncommon in the UK) cleats can be torn out unless you have a textile rode with some give, so backing pads are important and bolts need ample washers.

Unless you have a wooden boat, and are a competent craftsman I'd counsel against DIY wooden cleats oak or otherwise.
This site might inform your decision - starting with which type of oak you intend to use (about 5 main varieties)
http://workshopcompanion.com/KnowHow/Design/Nature_of_Wood/3_Wood_Strength/3_Wood_Strength.htm
 
I've noticed some of the ebay stainless ones are prone to the odd spot of rust here and there...
Wood ought to be OK if big enough.
It can be bigger than a metal one for the same weight and might be kinder to ropes and more comfortable to sit on.
In the limit, anything can be broken, there comes a point when it's better to break the cleat than have it leave the boat taking a big chunk of deck with it...

I think laminating out of thin layers might work.

Primary anchoring/swinging mooring cleat wants to be a big metal one or a Samson post IMHO however.
 
I'd thought of laminating as well, as my oak from the main sawmill comes in 22mm thicknesses for flooring - and I have loads of spare lengths :) for cleats and backing plates also.


When lambing is finished, I hope to have some spare time, and will have a play in the workshop (which is undergoing reconstruction with luxuries such as windows ! )

Again, thanks to all for advice and ideas.
 
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