Wooden boats

[Bergman]

I am seriously considering moving to a wooden boat, and would appreciate any comments/advice.

What is the maintenance overhead compared to a GRP boat?

What should I look for in a wooden boat - is there a wood equivalent of osmosis?

I have seen one boat Cascover sheathed from new - is that a good thing or not.

Any other meaningful thoughts would be welcome as would any questions I ought to have asked and haven't (answers as well would be great)

 

[pvb]

One word...

One word... Don't!

Wooden boats have great feelings of tradition and heritage, but they require literally endless maintenance. If you thought it was hard work keeping a fibreglass boat tidy, you haven't even begun! Wooden boats need huge (and costly) inputs of tender loving care. A good friend of mine has owned a wooden boat for 14 years - it's never really been ready to sail throughout that period, and he's lavished care (and a small fortune) on it.

Just take a deep breath, forget about the nostalgia, and walk away briskly from any wooden boat you see. Buy a nice plastic boat (who was it who described them as "frozen snot"?)

 

[chippie]

It is not clear whether your are considering a traditional wooden boat for which the previous posting has a fairly accurate assessment, or a modern wooden boat constructed in west system or the like.
Here in NZ there are many wooden boats of both types with the modern epoxy constructed ones being comparable to glass in their maintenance which is not surprising as they are essentially glassed inside and out with wood as the substrate.
These boats are where wooden boat building has ended up in the 21st century and offer the advantages of both timber and glass, and being epoxy rather than polyester constructed avoid at least one drawback of glass boats.

 

[beneteau_305_553]

I've owned a wooden boat for 5 years and no regrets.

Its a traditional 38 ft broads motorboat built in 1953 and still going strong. I get any planks replaced with treated timber and spray the inside of the hull with cuprinol every year and the maintenance is getting less each year.

The cabin tops and decks are GRP sheathed with one layer of 2 oz woven mat and polyester resin. it even looks like traditional canvas!

Its hard chine and all the planks are 6" x 1" pine on oak. This eliminates all the plank shaping and steaming which is where the costs are incurred. all new planks are now bolted in with stainless bolts.

a mixture of old and new can work well.

It costs about £500 per year to have it professionally maintained. I saved at least £10,000 buying wood so the interest covers this cost.

and it's never going to have osmosis.

sometimes tradition can be worth the effort.

best of luck

Richard

 

[EASLOOP]

Stick with wood. I own and am currently re-building a wooden sloop of 1960's vintage. In the boat yard the other day I was talking to a colleague who related a story to me. During a recent gale two boats were driven ashore on the S coast. An inspection revealed plank damage on the wooden boat and a couple of broken frames while the 'plastic' boat had all of one side stove in. The wooden boat was repaired by the owner with a hammer, chisel and good saw. The glass boat - well you can imagine the professional fees involved in getting her repaired.

I must admit to having never owned a plastic boat so I am heavily biased. But I know that my East Anglian sloop stands out in a crowd and attracts admiring looks when she is afloat and in the yard alike. A plastic boat is often thought of as just another bubble in the water. When last did you hear of someone waxing lyrical about their fibreglass boat ??

rgds
John

p.s. Wooden boats do not suffer from osmosis, the curse of glass hulls!

 

[vyv_cox]

Remember the Maria Asumpta!

This wooden ship, apparently in perfectly sound condition, struck a rock off Padstow. Within a period of about one minute, according to eywitnesses, she was matchwood. Nothing of her seems to have been found except planks. GRP boats have struck rocks on many occasions but very few to my knowledge have suffered so catastrophically in such a short time. Steel ones bounce off.

I'm sure that owning a wooden boat is very satisfying. It does seem to me, after a lifetime of hanging around boatyards, that the pleasure lies more in the appearance and TLC than in the sailing.

I enjoy the maintenance of my plastic boat but I like to sail for an extended season, usually March to November. I know few wooden boat owners who are ready to launch by May and most are back ashore in September.

 

[DanTribe]

I have owned wooden boats for thirty years and a plastic one for two years.
Much depends on your attitude to working with wood.
I used to really enjoy working on the real boats, but I now find it a chore to work on the new toy.
A couple of things I've noticed.
1/ It takes me longer to polish the topsides than it took to repaint, and they still don't look much better.
2/ If the wooden boat got scuffed I could just splodge on some more paint.
3/ The worst job is rubbing down the antifouling and that's no different.
[OK that's more than a couple of things]
The costs of wooden boat maintenance is astronomical if yard maintained but not so bad if you intend to DIY

 

[EASLOOP]

Re: Remember the Maria Asumpta!

Point well taken. I havbe actually spent more time sailing my sloop around the boatyard than I have in the water. When I started looking for a craft I came across a Van de Staad but she was well outside of my budget. I ended up with my wooden sloop that had all but been abandoned (at least about to be broken for spares) She afforded me a way in to serious sailing along with a major lesson in boat construction. Without her I may not have been able to get entry. If I ever win the lottery perhaps I will go for a middle of the road solution incoporating wood and glass in the hull constructiom.

Rgds
John

 

[howardclark]

Re: Remember the Maria Asumpta!

After owning a fibreglass Westerley for 7 years, I'm just completing a purchase on a 12m wooden ketch built to a modern construction with cascover sheathing. The wood will require some regular attention, but I was forever trying to keep my fibreglass gelcoat on the Westerly looking OK with little success. I don't hold with the comments on the Marie Assumpta, no boats are designed to be run onto rocks. This wooden boat is far tougher than my Westerley and comes with one important extra - CHARACTER!

 

[Guest]

Hairyness Factor

Wooden boats are fine but have you considered the other 'lifestyle' changes that you will have to make ?

For a start you will have to dump things like Musto clothing and revert back to yellow oilskins made of Bitumen. Forget that nice 2hp Honda for the tender. Now it's back to rowing ( sculling for the best water cred) or having to find decent Welsh coal for a Seagull.

Gave up smoking 10 years ago ? Forget it - it's time to start swallowing neat nicotine again when you're tilt backwards by mistake when leaving the pipe in the gob. Will the women in you're life still think you are sexy when they keep seeing things like bacon rinds and egg yokes in that obligatory facefull of fuzz ?

I do think that wooden boats are probably the best to both look at and sail and long may their owners provide that wonderful view of them for me from my plastic cockpit.

 

[Guest]

Re: Wooden boats - NO WAY AM I MISSING THIS!!!!!!!

What a lovely thread - but I have a few comments ---------

1. pvb says "Don't" - apparently he has a friend who ........... "A friend?" I ask myself "Where is the 'when I was on the deck of a four masted barque' I have come to appreciate in this Forum?" - and move on............

2. Chippie points out that nowadays "wood" actually means some form of naturally grown cellulose sandwiched between two layers of fibreglass. I ask myself "Is this the 'wood' that is referred to in the query?" "Possibly not!" so .......... move on.

3. beneteau_305_553 explains how he has no regrets from owning a wooden boat - and then goes on to explain how easy it is to replace huge lumps of rot and the need to spray the inside with a deadly chemical every year on the basis that "maintenance is getting less each year". I am also bewildered at the logic of "saving £10,000 buying wood" being put on the list by a person with a "PBO Name" that epitomises "plastic" (and lots of it!!) but ...... not to worry - ....... move on.

4. EASLOOP vows "stick with wood" - on the basis that he is "re-building a wooden sloop". I ask myself "are we sailors or capenters?" Not to worry he then goes on to extol the virtues of how a wooden boat was easily repaired by the owner. I ask myself "Is this because wooden boats cannot get insurance?" This would explain why the owner apparently had to get "a hammer, chisel and good saw" to repair it!! EASLOOP asks "When did you last hear someone waxing lyrical about their fibregalss boat?" I answer "Everytime a boat owner has just had a lovely sail and got back into port." However the final comment clinches the argument when he says "Wooden boats do not suffer from osmosis." Oh absolutely right. Mind you they do suffer from teredo worm, gribble, damp rot, dry rot, wet rot, woodworm and a lack of uniformity that results in each bit of timber being a unique and unknown entity. Not to worry - let's move on.

5. vyv_cox I have a lot of time for - until the phrase "steel ones bounce off" comes into play when explaining what happens when vessels strike rock and other immovable objects. Oh yes - right - and for those people who thought otherwise the S.S. Titanic is still plying her trade between Liverpool and New York - so let's move on quickly before vyv gets upset!!

6. Poor old Dan Tribe's input is more of a confession than a comment. Having owned a wooden boat for years he is now the owner of a plastic one - but there is no "and I can't wait to get rid of it and get back to wood" so one has to wonder .............

7. EASLOOP (remember the brave "stick with wood"??) now advises "a middle of the road solution incorporating wood and glass in the hull construction". (This is the old fibreglass sandwich thing.) EASLOOP need to be careful making statements like that. His local "woodies" will probably keel-haul him the next time they look up from dealing with the latest bit of gribble infested wood they have discovered!!

8. howardclarke weighs in with the information that he is completing (note the word - i.e. not yet finalised) the purchase of a wooden hull sheathed in fibreglass. Howard states "This wooden boat is far tougher than my Westerly and comes with one important extra - CHARACTER!". However, I am unconvinced as it sounds like half-way between a prayer (i.e. "Please God let it be so!") and a justification for a wife (i.e. "You'll love it dear - it has character!") - plus there is that "just completing" - NOW is not the time to have doubts!!!!!

9. vic berner equates wood with all the old habits that have to come back if you go with wood. I will lay good money (£5 if you are interested vic) that vic is an ex-smoker but his final comment summed up my own views of wooden boats when he says "long may their owners provide that wonderful view of them for me from my plastic cockpit".

It was a lovely thread to follow - and I apologise if Ihave upset anyone - it's just that I have a weird sense of humour - and half an hour to spare!!

Best regards )

IanD

 

[paulonvt]

what ever material a boat is buit of, there will be mantinance. i,ve had sail boats of (in chronilogical order) grp, carval-mahog. on oak, steel, and now epoxy sheethed ply, (a badger). the order of amount maintenance needed,-(carval, steel, epoxy-ply, grp)

 

[coliholic]

Oh couldn\'t agree more

I'd say yes buy the wooden boat, they're beautiful to look at. I love just sitting in the cockpit of my GRP boat and gazing admiringly at the acres and acres of painstakingly varnished wood on a nicely kept wooden boat. Wouldn't have one for all the tea in china but I envy those wooden boat owners the time, dedication and trouble they've spent making them so beautiful for the likes of me to look at.

So yes, buy it and give me something to admire as I sit drinking my tea or beer or whatever.

But would I swap? Not a chance.

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: Remember the Maria Asumpta!

I fully agree, I have no intention of running any kind of boat onto rocks. Unfortunately, accidents do happen. I knew the Maria Asumpta quite well, had been on board her and she seemed to be solid and in excellent condition. Presumably, since she was a sail training ship, someone in authority agreed sufficiently to renew her certification. I was truly amazed to hear how quickly she broke up. No doubt fibreglass would not have come off scot free, but there would at least have been something to salvage. There are many tales of steel boats having grounded on reefs in heavy swells and being refloated, damaged maybe but not lost.

So far as the Titanic is concerned, re Ian Dutton's later post, have a look at http://www.mrs.org/microworld/titanic.html Brittle fracture and bouncing off rocks not quite the same thing! But thanks for the kind words.

 

[Guest]

My previous boat was a wooden one; 26 ft. My present boat is a GRP. With the wooden boat I spent a lot of my time maintaining the timber, perhaps 5 times more than the GRP. Financially, both the wooden and the GRP require same amound. Repairing a wooden boat is easy, however, getting good quality wood is a problem. Overall, It does not worth the hassle, unless you are an enthuciast. Try a steel boat as a comprimise.

 

[Guest]

Re: Remember the Maria Asumpta!

Vyv

Checked out the site - but with the best will in the world what happens AFTER you hit an iceberg at 20+ knots just has to be academic.

Rule Number 1 is - "Don't hit icebergs or rocks!!"

Rule Number 2 is - "If you hit icebergs or rocks do it very slowly, in very calm weather and on a rising tide."

Rule Number 3 is - "There are no other rules."

Sorry.

))

IanD

 

[chippie]

Re: Character

Howard, I know what you mean by character; I love traditional boats with their varnished wood and polished brass. Character is what my Norton motorcycles of (quite) a few years ago had. I used to spend every saturday morning tightening up the loose nuts and bolts and polishing the bike. Then I bought a big jap bike with electric start and just went riding. There wasnt much character to the bike but there sure as hell was in the performance.
I guess that what this rambling epistle is trying to say is that there is an analogy in there somewhere between Character of appearance and character of performance ;those that want to sail and those who want to polish and potter around, and no, I dont have a glass boat but perhaps the worst of both worlds, Glass over ply.
Thanks for your contribution to an interesting thread.
Cheers.

 

[oldharry]

Re: Horses for courses.

Wooden boats do not suffer from osmosis. No but they suffer from various forms of rot - wet or dry, wood borers, nail sickness, and as they get older and more decrepit, various other nasties.

GRP can suffer from osmosis, and will sink just as quickly as a wooden boat if holed.

I dont think Vyv was actaully thinking of Titanic when he commented on steel 'just bouncing off rocks' - actually he is largely right. A steel hull will sensibly bend and abosrb much of the stress of a grounding, but remain watertight. Unlike poor old Titanic which was an 'immovable force meeting irresistible object' and simply proved as her designer Bruce Ismay said in the film - 'she is made of iron - she will sink'.

What interests me is that no one has bought Ferro concrete in to the equation yet? Reportedly they actually BREAK the rocks that they hit! I think it was YM carrried an account of a ferro yacht that hit an Aegean reef, remained for several days before refloating, and virtually destroyed the reef in the process! the hull reportedly remained watertight, with only 'cosmetic' damage!

Someone asked 'when did you last hear somebody eulogising over their GRP boat' or words to that effect. Actually, yesterday..... down at the yard as we were getting ready for launching.

So if wood suits you, and you are happy with the level of expertise and effort apparently required to maintain them to the 9s, thats fine.

If you want to go sailing, but without subsidising International, or Blakes; or you want to fit the latest go fast technology, then GRP is the solution.

If you want to go bouncing off rocks, and are handy with a welding torch, then buy steel.

But for ultimate strength should you want to be able to sink the other bloke with impunity, or to dig out a new berth for your boat the easy way - then clearly ferro is the answer. And with ferro you will learn skills you can use at home in re-plastering too!


But one fact remains - if you do not put time, effort and money into maintenance, then no boat you buy will remain seawothy for very long. You just have to choose which system of maintenance you prefer.

 

[chippie]

Re: Horses for courses.

I think your final paragraph sums it up ----Well said

 

[Guest]

Strange story

My dad owns a 1961 folkboat, and does no maintanance at all. The yard (the same where it was built) varnishes and anitfouls it once a year, for which it charges 2 days of labour. No wood has ever been replaced, and there is nothing rotten now. He did have a teak deck laid a few years ago, which wasn't cheap.

I understand that this is an exceptional story, but it is possible. The boat has to be in near perfect condition, and more important: well built. All the boats built at this yard are in perfect or near perfect condition.

The moral: it is possible to own a good-looking, attractive wooden boat without it costing as much time as a newly born.

Barteld