Wooden boat maintenance budget

[abacus]

I wonder if someone could kindly advise.

I am looking to buy my first wooden boat and trying to get a realistic understanding of annual maintenance costs. Purchase price in the range of £30 t £40/- and around 32' to 34' LOA. I am proceeding on the basis that I buy the best condition that price allows and then keep it there rather than restoring something.

As far as sanding, painting and varnishing go I am reasonably handy. Other maintenance skills more limited but I'm a practical sort.

A rule of thumb I have heard is 10% of value but have no feel for whether this is reasonable or includes/excludes berthing etc. From my digging part of the trick seems to be finding a yard where they are happy for you to come and go and do what you can rather than being a sort of hostage and obliged to use their services.

Any thoughts? Exclusive of berthing costs probably easiest I think.

Thank you very much.

 

[Seagreen]

It all depends on where you are in the uk (I presume), where the boat will be kept, and how much you are prepared to do yourself. As a general principle, the more you can do yourself, ie., not spend on labour costs, then its just raw materials, paint, antifoul, etc. Wooden boats are a generally a lot cheaper than the equivalent as people are generally scared of "the maintenance" so unless you've got a very top notch boat with huge modern inventory, it will not cost you that much.

I presume you are taking mooring and yard storage fees out of the equation? These would have to be paid on the length of the boat regardless of construction. Generally a swinging tidal mooring will be hugely cheaper than a marina, and wintering the boat in a mud berth or afloat, covered, will be far cheaper than yard lifts or cranage, and a lot better for the hull, than lifting out. A good tip is; keep all the fresh water away from the boat and keep it immersed in salt water. If you have to lay up in a fresh water river or canal, spread a few handfuls of salt around the bilges once a month.

Are you thinking of becoming a liveaboard? The insurance rates for this are higher, and some yards don't like this. Again, another general trend, but the smaller yards can be a lot more flexible and would welcome the business. Ask around.

Can't put any real figures to this for you. It varies on so many factors. But wooden boats, though complex jigsaws of decaying vegetable matter, are not high tech and you don't need to be a rocket scientist to maintain one.
/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

BUT... Get a VERY GOOD surveyor to give the hull a thorough survey. The OGA can recommend people. Don't get a rush of blood to the head and buy just because the varnish looks nice.

Best of luck.

M

 

[abacus]

Thanks

Yes, UK, swinging mooring.

Uncertain about what is best for the winter - only advice I have had so far is "they really benefit from being hauled out and placed under cover all winter" from a yard owner.....sounded rather counter intuitive to me, ie dry out hull for 6 months, refloat and expand it again, leaks presumably at first etc.

That's helpful...just wahat I am trying to establish.

 

[Peterduck]

Firstly, welcome to the forum! You are correct in trying to get a boat that is in top condition and trying to keep it there. In fact, I would recommend a smaller boat in top condition over a larger boat in poorer condition for the same initial price. It is important to mentally separate the 'repairs' from the 'maintenance'. Maintenance is largely a matter of keeping the protective coatings [eg. paint, varnish, oils, etc] intact, oil changes to the engine and renewing old ropes and sails which are worn out. Repairs are where the money disappears. A great deal of above-water manitenance can done while on a mooring on a calm, sunny day. This can actually be one of the pleasant aspects of boat ownership. Choose a boat which has minimal brightwork [varnish] on the outside, as this is where most of the work in maintenance is. Paint will outlast varnish 10 times to one.
Peter.

 

[Seagreen]

[ QUOTE ]
"they really benefit from being hauled out and placed under cover all winter"

[/ QUOTE ]

That advice came straight from his sales manager, I presume?

My own boat has been dry for 7 months and I'm beginning to get nightmares. All I'm doing is some necessary hull repairs and then she's going back in, with nothing but the occasional 4 month drying out for a tide to check prop, anode, antifoul and rudder hangings. Other than that Cleone'll not come out for another 4 years.

Having a good deep slipway/gridiron nearby where you can dry out over a tide or two is very useful. Sadly lacking here on the Exe.

 

[Roach1948]

There are really so many variables it is hard to say.

Very much depends on the yacht istelf though. Wooden yachts will need the keel bolts repleced every ten to fifteen years or so, so make maybe trickle saving for larger jobs like this is an idea. Will the yacht have a laid deck?- that will need replacing too sometime.

If the yacht is in great condition, then it is easy keeping her that way. If not maintenance can easily become overwhelming.

You can mitigate yearly maintenance costs by investing in a modern varnish system. Some people swear by Coelan - I am a personal fan of Skippers. These systems will allow you to go for 4/5 years without touching varnish. I am budgeting £400/500 for Roach next year, but she has been recently restored and has had a lot invested in her up till now.

 

[ccscott49]

Keel bolts replaced every tem to fifteen years??? I bloody well hope not! Maybe inspect evry ten years, but replace?

 

[RobinBirch]

If I was you I'd have a mail/chat with John Lilley - he's a surveyor with extensive knowledge of wooden boats. Check out his site www.seasurveys.co.uk. Great guy, very knowledgeable and helpful.
LaTouche

 

[MapisM]

You can't imagine how glad I am to read your reply!
I jumped on my chair reading about the NEED to replace them....
Any other experiences/thoughts?

 

[oldharry]

I agree you are right to be looking for the best possible boat to start with. Restoration is a nightmare - not only for the amount of workj that needs doing, but financially. When I owned a wooden boat I used to work out the likely maintenance cost, then double it. Even then I would invariably have to overspend: and that was doing all the work myself!

The only realisitic way to restore is to have the boat ashore strip it right down and do the job properly, which in my experience means losing a seasons sailing. Trying to botch things up while afloat and sailing is a non starter - the list of jobs grows exponentially for every day afloat!

 

[pyrojames]

I've just gone in after 15 months out and she appears to have taken up already. Much surprised but very pleased!

On the budget front, I find the 10% quite good for me, so about £3-4k p.a. That comfortably covers things like the new deck I've just completed, small breakages, paint and varnish, and annual winter storage and haul out. It also covers my swing mooring costs, but I have just moved into a marina so that is no longer covered. I would add that I don't spend 3k every year, more around the 2 mark, but the occaisional big items need to be taken into account.

Oh and she is up for sale, now that the deck is finished, as I want something bigger for the family.

PyroJames.

 

[LittleShip]

The first thing to ask yourself when buying wood is.........

Will I enjoy doing this type of work, for most on here they look at it as part of the joy of owning a wooden boat. If you are of the ilk that only wants to sail it then look at plastic, but remember.... Plastic needs attention as well!

I will say that once you have a good wooden boat there is only marginally more work to look after it than a plastic one and for anybody who disagrees, have a look in the boat yards in the spring when they are all out there cleaning and polishing for a month of weekends! This year I painted the hull of mine in less time than it took one guy to polish his pride.

Welcome to the forum and good luck with the hunt!

Tom

 

[Niander]

Very much depends on the yacht istelf though. Wooden yachts will need the keel bolts repleced every ten to fifteen years or so...a fine way to scare someone!

How about add some extra ones...to make sure...

 

[Roach1948]

Sorry your right. I meant inspect them - it is just with my case I needed to replace all of them. Hence the idea of a trickle fund for larger repairs (because if they need to replacing after inspection, without any funds in place is a hell of a lot scaryer than my last post - been there got the t-shirt)

 

[jezjez]

As someone who just bought wood for the first time, I found:
1. There is more of a worry element than with plastic. I worry about little jobs that I never need to on plastic. (This worry disappears more when I'm on the boat for some reason).
2. Two best pieces of advice I got: Buy the best boat you can find for your money - the less work needing doing the better.
And, never own 2 boats. Sell the other one first.
3. When I'm not worrying, I am very proud of my wooden boat and feel part of a small group of enthusiasts - I see more wooden boats on the river now and less plastic ones - my eye is even more taken to the traditional.
4. I feel ashamed of my flaking varnish!
5. I'm not sure about 10% - I would say I'll spend 30% this winter again!, but I'm hoping that it will be more like 5% and won't be big bills for quite a while.

 

[Peterduck]

I used to feel that I was part of a small group of enthusiasts who the rest of the sailing fraternity around me regarded as a 'lunatic fringe'. Then I went to the Brest Festival in 2000, and realised that I was slap-bang in the middle of a parallel and separate main- stream which operated without the slightest reference to the other 'mainstream'. Sometimes this other mainstream can be a bit elusive, until you know where to look. Once found, life becomes definitely richer. Welcome to boats which often have a rich history, workmanship which ranges from breathtaking to bodging, and some very interesting people. Oh yes, it's a whole different ball-game!
Peter.