Wood vs GRP??!!

EJo

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At the risk of subjecting myself to vast quantities of passionate opinions, what is the view on wood vs GRP as a boat material? For example, there are an increasing number of wooden pilot cutters in construction but, apart from the obvious benefits of being truer to the original vessels, what are the pros and cons of each material? E.g. sea keeping abilities, stiffness etc

Head above the parapet so fire away....
 

WowdyWebel

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I've spent part of this year looking for something suitable. In the end I decided on wooden although I know that was where my heart was long before.

My rationale or lack of it was as follows

- aesthetics - nothing quite lifts the spirits like a nice wooden boat. Practically, although I haven't experienced it yet, I suspect that nothing punctures them faster too.

- budget - this is certainly a factor for me and think with wood you get more for your money - a function of the higher maintenance costs of course. More doesn't mean bigger of course but the all round package.

- seaworthyness - I think the majority of wooden boats were still built when seathworthyness and kindliess were seen as the most important factor. Of course, you don't get 3 separate berths etc in a 34 footer but you do get something many people would be happy to go anywhere in.

I rather came to the conclusion that I could spend twice as much on a new plastic boat and still not get what I was after and that I would need to buy a brand well beyond my budget before it gave me what I wanted.

I think that if plastic was the only choice I'd take up something else.
 

Roach1948

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I had Roach re-wired by a professional marine electrician. He said that he much prefered working on a wooden boat - far easier to install new equipment. The last re-wiring he did on a plastic boat required him to epoxy wooden blocks to the deckhead in order to screw in the conduits.
 

LittleShip

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The only reason the vast majority of boats these days are made from fiberglass is ease of construction. In comparison to the skills needed to build in wood plastic is cheap.

Wood is warmer
Wood doesn't sweat as much as plastic
Wood boats can be repaired to as new, and you cant do that with plastic! Oh no you cant!
We still grow wood, though it is getting a little expensive these days.

It's always going to be your choice but people who have wood boats tend to be a little more passionate about them........ there must be a reason for that!
 
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Marine ply is a very good material for boat building,being a composite of hard woods it is very strong,also if you need to replace any part of the boat you dont need to be a skilled chippy as i found out.This is my first wooden boat and compared to the plastic and steel ones i have owned it is the warmest and most welcoming,i dont think i would go back to G.R.P.
 

Sequoiah1

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If just comparing the same yacht but built of different materials…………

Modern composites (FRP - fibre reinforced plastics) can be used to produce a lighter stiffer hull shell than a solely timber one. What this means is that to have a traditional design such as a pilot cutter you would be altering the balance of weight in the boat ie you could put more ballast in the keel and get a higher righting moment which can lead to higher stress in the rig and hence you need to allow for that in the design. Potentially a more powerful boat but more highly stressed.
Sea keeping etc will not change dramatically, stability will be somewhat higher and I imagine you would notice a difference in motion between the two identical boats but built of different materials with different righting moments.

Modern composites are no more difficult to maintain than a timber hull and over a period of time an FRP hull could suffer from any number of problems associated with the construction method, de-lamination, water absorption etc. Maintenance over the short term is more involved with a timber hull.

Hull repairs are no more difficult to carry out to a composite or Timber Hull.

Most of the choices relating to wood or FRP yachts are largely romantic or down to experience.

Very Long term I would say that the timber hull has more longevity. But this can all depend on the quality of the build as well.
 

alan006

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For a complete beginner I think GRP is a lot easier to maintain than timber, however if you have a wooden boat over the years you learn more and more how to maintain and improve her and this will provide a huge part of the satisfaction of owning a boat. This satisfaction that comes from maintaining a wooden boat does not come from a GRP boat, I know I've had all sorts over the years.
 

Seagreen

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[ QUOTE ]
Very Long term I would say that the timber hull has more longevity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn right. Cleone's made of pitch pine on oak frames, and apart from a rise in her topsides by two planks iin the last 20 years, has had substantially the same hull for the last 150 years.

I'll repeat that for the hard of reading; One hundred and fifty...

Now where did I leave the Cuprinol?

/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 

oldharry

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[ QUOTE ]
Marine ply is a very good material for boat building,being a composite of hard woods it is very strong,also if you need to replace any part of the boat you dont need to be a skilled chippy as i found out.This is my first wooden boat and compared to the plastic and steel ones i have owned it is the warmest and most welcoming,i dont think i would go back to G.R.P.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes but... unprotected by suitable epoxy type sheathing it has a working life of around 25 years, after which you are in to major rebuilds. If going to all the expense of epoxy then why not start with a plastic boat in the first place?

Literally thousands of plywood boats were built in the 60s /70s. How many are still around? I currently own a 38 year old GRP boat which is as good as new. Previously I owned one which is now 47 years old and still looks pretty good, and is as solid as the day she was built. As long as somebody still wants her (and she is a pretty little boat so she is in with a chance), she will still be sailing around in another 40+ years as far as I can see.

As to timber lasting longer than GRP: no it doesn't. Every GRP moulding made will still be in the environment in a thousand years time. Maybe several thousand.

To my mind that is bad news - what will be the going price for a Jen or Bav when its a thousand years old.....? But seriously, the material is not biodegradeable, and whatever you do with it, it will still be around - if only as landfill. wooden boats can be maintained to last as long as somebody wants them, and 150 years old is exceptionally good going - why else did Seagreen emphasise it?

What sort of state all the current rash of plastic will be in by then is anybodies guess - very unlikely much of it will be actually useable. But it will still be solid GRP (or as solid as some modern boats ever are) unlike its timber counterpart which will have returned quietly to where it came from.
 

Sequoiah1

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As I said a Timber 'hull' is likely to last longer than an FRP one simply because the continued stressing in a hull will cause the fibres to break down with the resin matrix. The fibres will still exist but not in the same form that they were moulded.

Oh and there are a number of companies recycling fibreglass boats into, guess what, fibreglass boats.
 

oldharry

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Sounds good Seagreen - what timber - Pitch Pine?

My point is that once a wooden boat is no longer wanted - either beyond economic repair, or simply no further use, it will return where it came from -ash to ashes, dust to dust etc.

GRP - whether still in boat form, or minced up for road building (nice one!) does not degrade in the same way, and adds material to the environment. Its up to the people disposing of it whether that addition causes damage. Usually the most damaging option is the cheapest, and therefore the most likely.
 

ccscott49

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I´m definitely in the wood camp! Nothing finer in my opinion.
My boat is now 42 years old and has never had a plank or a square inch of wood replaced for rot, depends how the vessel was built in the first place and with what materials, plus of course how it is maintaned. Mine is an iroko splined hull, on oak and iroko frames, cascover sheathed below the waterline. Teak varnished upper works and laid deck. Not built with epoxy, they used cascamite. I keep her in excellent condition. I admit it takes a lot of time to keep her good, but the hull topsides have only been painted twice in my 13 year ownership and that didnt require removal of paint, just a good flat and three topcoats.
 
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Totaly agree,my hull is marine ply cascovered,she is 20 years old now and the topsides have been painted 3 times in all,i used Dulux weathershield last time,brilliant,but its true you need to keep a look out for any nicks in the paintwork where fresh water can get in and repair asap,as for plastic am i right in thinking that mass production started in the late 50`early 60`s and most boats of that vintage show it?
 
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