wood, grp or steel?

[catherinejp]

Hi All, I'm new to the forum so I hope some of you will be good enough to help with my question, you all seem a nice bunch when I've been reading your posts /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

I'm looking at buying my first boat, something 26'-30' with 4 berths. Mostly for sailing on the east coast but for occasional passages to France, Belgium, Holland. I would love a wooden boat but I've done enough maintenance on them to know I probably don't have enough time to properly maintain one. Buying a pretty classic and letting it rot through neglect should be a crime and I don't want to make myself a hypocrite! So I have started looking at GRP. However in the price range I'm looking at (~£10k) they are all pretty old, especially to get something with classic lines.

So the question is would an old GRP be just as much maintenance as wood? I don't know anything about GRP as well so I will find it harder to spot problems. Steel is great, but hard to find under 30' as it is so heavy.

Any advice would be very helpful, and if you can guess the number of days a year you spend on your small old wooden/steel/grp boat that would be a great help too!

Thanks,
Catherine.

 

[Mirelle]

It\'s not really the hull and decks that are the problem.

(I agree that steel is "out" in this size).

The problem is really not so much the hull and decks, as the equipment.

Beyond a certain age, it all needs replacing. This is horribly expensive. New engine, new water tanks, new electrics, new electronics, new bunk cushions, new sails, new rigging, new dinghy...

I would keep an open mind on the issue of what she is built of, and look for a nice, well maintained boat, ideally perhaps one whose owner is giving up sailing and who is therefore not keeping a lot of gear for the next boat.

 

[Talbot]

The good thing about old GRP boats is that they were build much heavier than modern GRP offerings. The hull, and sometimes the superstructure as well are solid GRP, rather than a thin skin over foam (or worse - over balsa) with another thin skin the other side. Nobody knows how many years will be the life of a GRP boat, but early ones are already over 30, and a lot of these are still going strong. things to look out for - obviously Osmosis, but that is not a reason to condemn as most boats of this age will have some evidence of this, and a small degree of pox is nothing to really worry about. Heavy infestation will affect the price as it may need to be treated by removing the gel coat, drying out thoroughly, and a replacement for the gel coat slapped on.

What is a lot worse is where there is delamination in the hull - where one sheet of GRP cloth has become detached from the next. very expensive to fix, and best left for somebody else to worry about. It can normally be seen by pressing in on a flat section of the hull and seeing a ripple of movement.

 

[Nimrod30]

Wood
Grp has been compared by a boat builder friend of mine, to living in a cave built from solid snot. He built wooden boats so he was biased and so am I. In all honesty Mirelle is making a lot of sense. A good owner of a good boat will sell it like a dog ie to a good home and will vet you as much as the other way around. They will have years of experience and thought built in to the boat that they sell you.
There is no such thing as a cheap boat so go for a well maintained one. Wood takes more work than grp.

Best of luck

PS If you are looking at a wooden boat get the surveyor to throw the owner off as soon as you can (this is good regardless as words can cover problems better than epoxy bog and paint) and stab any and all suspect timber with a pick. or knife.
I never officially said that.

 

[Forbsie]

I would have thought that the biggest and most common problem with old grp boats would be the underlying wood within them. I know that, at some time, I will have to replace certain wooden supports, particularly where fittings have been taken off the deck and rainwater has got in rotting the wood.

 

[absit_omen]

Look at a GRP Albin Vega. Solidly built, nice accommodation, sails like a witch, easy to maintain and hold their value. My first boat was a Vega and I lament the simplicity of those times!

 

[georgelewisray]

Stick with GRP!! It will sit and wait for you and not go bad (very quickly).

I now have a 40' steel gaff rigged schooner and I have had a 40' wooden classic power boat. I would not wish the labor and challenges of steel or wood on someone who's goal is to use the boat rather than work on it. Aluminum has many advantages but GRP would have to be my recomendation. The older solidly built boats have MUCH MUCH to recommend them. There are many users clubs and magizine articles on the older boats and discribe the known pros and cons as well as the price ranges.

There are certainly systems and hardware that go bad and it is expensive to replace them, but if one considers the basic boat in the old style with out all the built in the electronics and gizmos it is very basic wiring and plumbing. The modern rigs on sailboats are a sore spot as the stainless tends to look fine to the CASUAL eye and can fail suddenly. Careful and close inspection is not difficult or expensive. Magnifying glass and dye penetrant to look for invisible deep cracks in wire end fittings and your ready to head out to sea.

best
G.Ray
Cape Fear,Carolina,USA

 

[catherinejp]

Thanks for your replies, some great advice there. I think I'll look for an older GRP boat as it doesn't sound like an old GRP hull should have too many problems as long as the rest of the kit has been well maintaned. Although I'll keep an eye out for a well maintained wooden one just in case something perfect comes up /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

 

[BrendanS]

GLR, interested as to why you recommend modern 'plastic' boats over steel and wood, both of which can last generations with a little love and attention. Not a negative post, just interested that someone that's owned both alternatives is recommending the more modern version.

 

[Ships_Cat]

Will stick my oar in here /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

Assuming comparison with a FRP boat kept in good cosmetic condition eg gel coat damage regularly repaired, etc, a properly designed and built modern steel yacht with epoxy build/polyurethane top coating system, ss in wear areas, etc will have about the same maintenance demands as a similarly well designed and built plastic boat.

Not saying that the maintenance items are the same, just that the work/dollars magnitude of them is much so. The foregoing is for the hull, however, most maintenance/upkeep hours/dollars on a boat go into the rig (if a yacht), engines, electronics, and auxiliaries such as refrigeration/freezer, etc. in which case they are common, as is scrubbing and antifouling.

Getting back to the hull, taking the life of the paint system (which many assume is the killer for steel). A repaint should not be necessary for 15 years from new for the exterior for white paint (less for colour depending on colour and UV exposure) - that should just be repair of coatings and top coat respray, not a start from bare metal again. The interior should have been painted with exactly the same system as the exterior minus the top coat - it should last the life of the boat apart from minor touch ups except in permanently immersed areas such as the water tanks should they be steel (the bilges will be dry, of course).

The problem with steel is that so many are amateur built with cheap fitout, or if professionally built, the build dollars are not put into them to give a high quality vessel (a custom steel boat build should cost as much as a custom composite boat build ie expensive). For those reasons good ones are very, very hard to find.

I suspect that a reasonably modern (so built of good marine alloys) aluminium boat is by far the least maintenance intensive construction.

John

 

[toolarts]

I love this question.

1. Wood...IMHO, best material for cruising boats, bar none. Stronger than fiberglass, can be easily repaired, reinforced, and with proper maintenance, does not degrade. Con: If allowed to deteriorate, can be very expensive and time consuming to rennovate.

2. GRP: Does not degrade over time, even with poor maintenance. Lower overall cost. Con: If you hit something hard in the water, it will shatter, leak. I'm thinking of reefs, rocks, and mislaid steel containers.

3. Steel. Very strong, good for icebergs, mislaid containers, rocks, etc. Con: I think, not being that knowledgable about steel, that there are a lot of problems with corrosion, both rust and galvanic. Grounding, etc. are really problems.

Personally, If I were really to travel the earth in the temperate zone, I would go with GRP or wood, probably leaning toward wood. Ocean sailing means being serious about maintenance, and if kept up, wood is no more expensive than GRP.

I would only consider steel for trips to the southern ocean, where superior strength against constant storms and ice make moot the consideration of rust. i.e., you'll be lucky to survive long enough to worry about corrosion or rust, and the steel will hold up where other materials would fail.

Just my opinion, not very well informed, either.