Woman overboard drowned

[Mark-1]

Is there anything in the report to substantiate this?

Nothing in the report AFAIK but surely it's not controversial to say Oilies are a serious hindrance in the water and dinghy gear is so well suited to the water that going into the water is unremarkable and almost never fatal. (Which isn't to say she was wearing the wrong gear for the sport - clearly the people who sail those boats know what's best on balance.)

 

[ylop]

I don't think rescue boats are the thing that makes dinghy sailing safe.

I agree - in fact, having been around a few clubs and RTCs over the years I actually think they may add to a false sense of security @ProMariner said he would "feel naked" without one - but the skills, experience and equipment vary wildly.

In this case her own boat had got to her conscious and talking in the water. Regardless of recovering her if they'd put a loop round her and tied her with her head well above water she wouldn't have drowned

I agree this crucial bit of the investigation seems to have been missing - I have a horrible suspicion that dragging her away from shore made matters worse. I think its also true that a bouyancy aid may actually have been better but the MAIB don't seem to like them.

and that's likely all a 2 man rescue rib would have been able to do. (I'm really not convinced the nets are a panacea in this scenario, all the demo vids seem to be strong people recovering a light person in light clothing. Not two typical rescue crew people recovering a 125kg person in waterlogged oilies.)

Certainly not without a well-practiced and recently rehearsed process - on a realistic club safety boat that net will not be routinely used so probably needs rigged, untangled, the instructions read etc. If anyone is reading this thinking it wouldn't happen at their club because they have a rescue boat they've missed the point - unless you actually test your process with real world situations you probably have a coach boat not a rescue boat!

So I think rescue cover is a red herring, someone in an open boat should survive long enough that a tardy rescue isn't fatal.

Certainly in the solent where professional rescue support is usually very quickly available.

 

[DreadShips]

Nothing in the report AFAIK but surely it's not controversial to say Oilies are a serious hindrance in the water and dinghy gear is so well suited to the water that going into the water is unremarkable and almost never fatal. (Which isn't to say she was wearing the wrong gear for the sport - clearly the people who sail those boats know what's best on balance.)

There's so much odd about this particular incident that it's impossible to say if it would have made a difference (there's perhaps a wider debate about keelboats more widely, of course).

All adds to the sense that there's been an opportunity missed to look properly at recreational sailing in general and why the lifejacket didn't or couldn't do its job.

 

[Mark-1]

There's so much odd about this particular incident that it's impossible to say if it would have made a difference (there's perhaps a wider debate about keelboats more widely, of course).

All adds to the sense that there's been an opportunity missed to look properly at recreational sailing in general and why the lifejacket didn't or couldn't do its job.

100% agree. The *only* reason I wear a LJ is to keep my airway out of the water, unconscious, in oilies and winter clothes. If it doesn't do that, or if it needs to be *very* tight to do that, I want to know.

The MAIB shouldn't have glossed over that or the other issues people are hinting at. In contrast, there's no mystery over the difficulty of fully recovering her, they really didn't need to waste much ink on that.

(FWIW I'm not suggesting any blame here. Everyone seems to have been acting well within the bounds of what I regard as reasonable.)

 

[Chiara’s slave]

There's so much odd about this particular incident that it's impossible to say if it would have made a difference (there's perhaps a wider debate about keelboats more widely, of course).

All adds to the sense that there's been an opportunity missed to look properly at recreational sailing in general and why the lifejacket didn't or couldn't do its job.

It was an odd, as well as distressing, incident. She did not just miss her footing, I thought at the time that she had some health episode going on. She went in much as a diver would, wearing fins. It was not a ‘usual’ MOB.

 

[ylop]

The MAIB shouldn't have glossed over that or the other issues people are hinting at. In contrast, there's no mystery over the difficulty of fully recovering her, they really didn't need to waste much ink on that.

Well I think that point is part of the total picture. If people assume they can recover people relatively easily the emphasis is on "get back to the fender" - it becomes less important to keep the airway clear in an unconscious casuatly if most of your casualties are still conscious. I'm surprised that they didn't do any subsequent simulation to understand if multiple hands desparately pulling at a lifejacket can loosen it. Again that's not to assign blame - that so that life jacket designers, buyers and future rescuers might be better informed.

It was an odd, as well as distressing, incident. She did not just miss her footing, I thought at the time that she had some health episode going on. She went in much as a diver would, wearing fins. It was not a ‘usual’ MOB.

Do you know if there was (or is to be) an inquest? Coroners sometimes ask better questions than the MAIB.

 

[DreadShips]

It was an odd, as well as distressing, incident. She did not just miss her footing, I thought at the time that she had some health episode going on. She went in much as a diver would, wearing fins. It was not a ‘usual’ MOB.

Meant to come back the other day and add that I hope this popping back up in the news cycle hasn't been too disturbing. Much appreciate your input, as it's answered some of my questions.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Coded vessels now have to demonstrate to the surveyor how to recover a person from the water. I have provided a video to the surveyor for one boat a couple of years ago. I am not sure if this is a mandatory requirement or a recommendation for coding, but it was new around 2020ish.

I would not be surprised if this results in tightening up on recovery evidence. The best I have seen (on a cruising yacht) is the equipment marked on deck / mast with adhesive numbers that correspond to instructions. In this case they use a topping lift, routed to a powered winch. The boat has a gas lift vang, strut, so the topping lift is redundant.

I bought Duncan Well’s kit, Life Savers and 8:1 pulley system, including strop for horizontal lifting. MOB Lifesavers | MOB Retrieval for lifejackets My partner can secure me alongside and lift my 92kg with one hand, it’s that easy, with practice of course.

In the situation associated with OP, this may not have been a suitable system. The only point I wish to make, is if you have not practiced recovering a person from the water onto to your boat, then you most likely will fail should you find yourself needing to. It’s not a difficult problem to solve, and the solutions can be quite easy using existing kit. However, if your topsides are more than a meter from sea level, I strongly recommend lifesavers as per the above link, fitted to each lifejacket. I have no association with Duncan Wells beyond being a customer.