WNS (What Now Skip?)

[jfm]

I'm curious about jfm "well-known method that works on virtually every boat and causes no damage". If it works on some steel trawlers I can think of, with 1/2" thick safety glasses all around, NO hatches at all, watertight doors, etc., then Houdini should eat his heart out for good!

Nope, it wouldn't work on such a boat. I mean production "plastic fantastic" boats only (sorry!).

I'm really not trying to start a guessing game. But there is a flaw in the WNS (innocently I'm sure) in that by its nature it involves discussion on how to get into a boat without a key. To us honest boat owners who know each other, we could happily discuss that in a pub. It's useful info. But we can't write our tricks on the 'net, and wouldn't want them described in MBY magazine... What to do eh?

 

[Mr.Completely]

I'm quite surprised at the number of people who'd spend lots of time trying to break in especially through any hatches up on the foredeck whilst the boat is moving, IMO leaving the helm of a moving boat is incrediby irresponsible, and also what got the mystery skipper in this situation.
If you could stop the boat by all means use the damage controlling methods of entry, but risk of the making the situation so much worse and more costly for me far outweighs extra damage you would do by getting in as quickly as possible.

 

[[2068]]

Exactly.

I would focus on what you DO have intially, which is steering and probably a VHF set mounted up top.

So,

1.) Take off the upper cover, get to the helm, and turn away from that busy harbour entrance into more open water using the upper A/P controls, or turn the A/P off and use the helm.

2.) Get on the VHF mounted upstairs, issue a "pan pan" and explain the situation.

3.) Keep checking that you're not about to sink anything, and now start to rummage around for tools or techniques that might help you re-enter the boat.
- Test all windows / hatches.
- Wiggle any forward hatch clips. Wiggle really hard, and break the little tabs if necessary.
- If this fails, consider using a bit of force on the patio door lock.
- Breaking a window is really a last resort: there will be a lot of flying glass shards, scratched interior, and a risk of glass shards in parts of your anatomy that should not contain glass shards.
- If the fuel shutoffs are within reach, you could head towards a safe anchorage, shut the engines down, then anchor, but you have no way of restarting the engines (e.g. if the anchor drags)

4.) Failing all else, plot a course to the nearest manned Coastguard station. Go round and round in circles at 6 kts waving both arms above your head. After 10 hours, they will either have figured out a way of rescuing you, or your fuel will run out. In the latter case, drop the anchor, open a beer from the cockpit fridge and enjoy the evening Sun.

dv.

 

[hlb]

With my experience of self locking doors, I always leave them locked open when underway.

 

[benjenbav]

To us honest boat owners who know each other, we could happily discuss that in a pub. It's useful info. But we can't write our tricks on the 'net, and wouldn't want them described in MBY magazine... What to do eh?

Sadly, there are plenty of pro's who can go through any lock that's likely to be on a boat pretty much as quickly without a key as I can with a key. And the scrotes will just bust a window.

 

[strakeryrius]

Isn't that a bit elaborate when you have a steering wheel on the flybridge, and you just need to remove the covers?

Of course you can steer the boat from the fly, assuming you can disengage the AP, but how are you going to steer the boat from the FB while simultaneously trying to break in?

Going around in circles has the added advantage that it will instantly trigger to the CG or others that you are in distress, gievn that you may not be able to contact them any other way from the details of the briefing. Can you set the AP to make you go around in circles?

 

[jfm]

Sadly, there are plenty of pro's who can go through any lock that's likely to be on a boat pretty much as quickly without a key as I can with a key. And the scrotes will just bust a window.

Agreed as a general observation. But this is binary decision: do we write here tricks we know of getting into a boat sans clé, or not?

 

[benjenbav]

do we write here tricks we know of getting into a boat sans clé, or not?

No!!

I was involved many years ago in a case which, for obscure reasons, required me to attend a building at dead of night with a team of bailiffs and a couple of specialist locksmiths. Geez, to see those guys at work made me feel like never bothering to lock anything again.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

Prevention is better than a cure.

When single handed I always go into neutral before tripping around the decks pushing out fenders.

My logic is based upon the fact that if I fall in, the boat will not be sailing off into the distance, having first messily chopped my feet into mince meat.

Funny really, but anyone caught messing around in a dinghy without a kill cord is roundly set upon by the mob, but do a similar thing in a fly bridge and it appears to be okay.

Double standards.

If you are not at the wheel then the boat should not be in gear.

Do I win a prize?

 

[fireball]

If you are not at the wheel then the boat should not be in gear.

Hmm ... I can see your rational - but I think that statement is a little too basic.
Although a saily boat - I quite often leave the helm on AP whilst underway - with or without the engine going - things like adjusting the sails & navigation needs our attention and if we stopped the boat every time we had to do something other than helm we wouldn't get anywhere ... however, on our boat you cannot lock yourself out of the cockpit!!

The main issue with an outboard & killcord is that if you fall overboard the boat will naturally start going around in circles - generally trapping the previous occupant(s) and putting them in immediate serious danger. If you fall of a boat under control of AP it will just carry on until it hits something or runs out of fuel/wind ... whilst the previous occupant is in danger there is less of an issue in recovery.

I see it as quite reasonable to drop speed and leave on AP to ready the boat for berthing - given enough searoom, what the problem is, is that the boat can lock itself.
Hindsight resolutions are - 1) lock the door open (as mentioned above) 2) change the lock mech so it doesn't self lock. Other options have already been mentioned - like leaving hatches unlocked whilst underway.

Whilst I'd be quite interested in a method of getting into a boat without keys I wouldn't want it posted on open forum - the scrotes can already get in fairly easily without making it simple!

 

[Major Catastrophe]

Fireball I think the question was aimed at Moboers not sailythingies. Falling overboard from the foredeck of a twin screw boat may be 'safe', or may result in chopped toes, but the result that it will motor merrily on, instead of hanging around for you to climb back aboard, is a certainty.

 

[fireball]

I know it was aimed at Moboers ... however, principles are the same (except we can't generally get locked out) - and you lot remind us that we're just moboers when we don't have the sails up!!
In gear or Neutral - depends on the weather, sea and conjestion and how stable you are on your feet!

 

[mjf]

Hmm ... I can see your rational - but I think that statement is a little too basic.
Although a saily boat - I quite often leave the helm on AP whilst underway - with or without the engine going - things like adjusting the sails & navigation needs our attention and if we stopped the boat every time we had to do something other than helm we wouldn't get anywhere ... however, on our boat you cannot lock yourself out of the cockpit!!

The main issue with an outboard & killcord is that if you fall overboard the boat will naturally start going around in circles - generally trapping the previous occupant(s) and putting them in immediate serious danger. If you fall of a boat under control of AP it will just carry on until it hits something or runs out of fuel/wind ... whilst the previous occupant is in danger there is less of an issue in recovery.

I see it as quite reasonable to drop speed and leave on AP to ready the boat for berthing - given enough searoom, what the problem is, is that the boat can lock itself.
Hindsight resolutions are - 1) lock the door open (as mentioned above) 2) change the lock mech so it doesn't self lock. Other options have already been mentioned - like leaving hatches unlocked whilst underway.

Whilst I'd be quite interested in a method of getting into a boat without keys I wouldn't want it posted on open forum - the scrotes can already get in fairly easily without making it simple!

Locking the door 'open' does not work on my boat as the door will then bang 'open and shut' all day long - also I do not like it open when underway as salt spray etc gets in.

If you close the door and do not lock it - it has been known to lock itself either though wave action or indeed someoen slamming the door shut that trips the mechanism.

Its quite a common issue it seems. That is why I always carry a key in my pocket in case it 'self locks'. Having a spare key located in a hidden spot is a solution too.

 

[fireball]

Sounds like bad design to me !!
I can understand not wanting the bang of open and shut all day long ... but you shouldn't have to worry that the mech will lock itself ...
Still - my option2 is still there - change the mech!! Dunno what for though ... is there any boat that has patio doors where this isn't an issue?

 

[Wiggo]

Yes, if there's any kind of sea running, the door will open and close, which is annoying. We can lock it open, but as you say, you end up filling the saloon with exhaust soot and salt spray. The kids are usually downstairs, so we lock the door from the outside but leave the key in. That way, we can get in and they can get out by turning the latch in the inside.

We did once get locked in/out, though: a big sea in the pitch dark, me upstairs driving and SWMBO below. Suddenly, she can't get out of the saloon. I came downstairs and couldn't open the door from the outside either. Turned out that the flag staff had fallen over and was lying in the patio door runner, effectively blocking it completely. SWMBO had to climb out through the lower helm window...

 

[mjf]

Sounds like bad design to me !!
I can understand not wanting the bang of open and shut all day long ... but you shouldn't have to worry that the mech will lock itself ...
Still - my option2 is still there - change the mech!! Dunno what for though ... is there any boat that has patio doors where this isn't an issue?

Look it not really an issue once you know about it, my mate who had the problem off Dover told me about it some years ago and I took it aboard. Never happened on my boat; not for want of trying to make it happen - then one day it locked itself!

Having the key in your pocket also causes a nice distraction should someone from the fairer sex wish to open the door whilst you are far too busy 'navigating' to get the keys out yourself

 

[Cliveshep]

I don't have a FB boat, and mine doesn't have AP either. Reading the original WNS scenario what was basically under control (via auto pilot) is shortly clearly going to be violently uncontrolled, possibly with loss of life to someone else and clearly with damage to at least our hapless skipper's boat if not to whatever else he hits if not the bottom somewhere.

Therefore I would consider this to be a runaway boat and the situation one of emergency with potential fatal consequences probably also including the loss of this boat completely. The point of the post appears to be that the AP is on, so the thing isn't about to go round in circles I assume without the AP trying to keep it on its possibly suicidal course, and I also assume in my ignorance that with the FB all under wraps and no keys anyway it sounds like what is postulated is a runaway boat with the skipper outside and all means of control inside.

One can also assume that there could only be minutes left in which to achieve something.

Therefore, from a pragmatic sense, breaking in somewhere NOW is the action likely to result in less damage ultimately than sitting around wondering if there is a drogue, or if the stops or cables controls in the ER can be accessed from the cockpit or if there are any tools available anyway not under lock and key already.

If I couldn't kick the door in I'd probably head for the bow, get hold of the anchor and pound a way in, even on a winch most chain can be released and slack pulled out, failing that I'd kick in a side or other flat window, get in and get the thing back under control. It is bad seamanship to worry about causing minor damage when the potential is for the whole ship to be lost and perhaps cause collateral damage as well.

Get in as fast as possible and regain control - end of!