Winning a day sailing as a raffle prize ?

CPD

CPD

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Pretty sure this has been covered but search finds nothing.

Scenario is I offer a day sail as a prize in a raffle (for which for arguments sake the winner bought £5's worth of tickets). I explain, and they agree, that the sail is completely at their own risk, and that I will repay the £5 to them to neutralise the financial implication of a "paying passenger".

Would that work, or are there other potential risks.

Has anyone done this or similar ? - Did it work out ok ?

Many thanks.
 
Unfortunately there is, technically, a problem - the vessel is being used for hire & reward and should, therefore, be up to MCA Code/SOLAS standards.
Most private leisure boats miss this in 3-4 different aspects. Insurers being no problem if the owner is aboard
The way round that is to get the winners to sign a letter of indemnity - no doubt thread contributors with legal training could produce an acceptable form of words.
Don't see how the return of the £5 would affect liability.
 
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charles_reed said:
Unfortunately there is, technically, a problem - the vessel is being used for hire & reward and should, therefore, be up to MCA Code/SOLAS standards.
Click to expand...

Assuming this is the typical case of an owner donating a prize to a local charity auction/raffle, it's not clear to me that the vessel is being used for hire. Certainly the owner isn't getting anything for it.

There's an argument that the random winner of the raffle doesn't come under the "owner's family and friends" rule in the MCA's regulations - but I'm pretty confident that they'd consider such occasional use as firmly within the spirit of the rules and not be interested in prosecuting.

charles_reed said:
The way round that is to get the winners to sign a letter of indemnity
Click to expand...

That doesn't help at all with the MCA charter / coding rules. Something along those lines might help a little in defending against a claim for loss or injury, but only as proof that they understood certain risks. I don't believe it's possible for people to sign away their rights to claim from you for loss or injury due to your negligence.

Pete
 
If you are offering this as part of a raffle that includes other prizes and is being promoted by another party then there would not seem to be an enforceable contract between you and the winner. So follow Nick's advice.

Can I buy a ticket?
 
CPD said:
Pretty sure this has been covered but search finds nothing.

Scenario is I offer a day sail as a prize in a raffle (for which for arguments sake the winner bought £5's worth of tickets). I explain, and they agree, that the sail is completely at their own risk, and that I will repay the £5 to them to neutralise the financial implication of a "paying passenger".

Would that work, or are there other potential risks.

Has anyone done this or similar ? - Did it work out ok ?

Many thanks.
Click to expand...
I take it that the prize for a day sailing with you is for last place? :D
 
I did just this, last year, as a raffle prize during our Russian Arctic Convoy week. The lady who won signed a wee note which I had produced, to say that she was not onboard as a paying customer and was doing so at her own risk. There was actually another person with us who had not won a prize to sail with me..

I had not benefitted in any "cash" way, and there definitely was no thought in my mind that I was acting "for reward".
Perhaps I was taking a risk, but it never occured to me.
Even without this thread and its implications, this is not something I would be repeating.

In the same raffle I offered one of my "special" fruit cakes, decorated with a photograph of my uncles WWII ship (convoy escort). I never thought of the health risk - but did wonder at drink-driving ramifications..........
 
The problem is not just that money may or may not have changed hands, but that a random member of the public is being exposed to whatever risks on your boat.
Somebody with no knowledge of boats, no understanding of how it might be dangerous.
If the worst happened, there would be quite a stream of public servants looking to prosecute.
It's not just about lifejackets, think about the possibilities of injuries from winches, mainsheet blocks, whatever.

Given that these days the general public are not assumed capable of negotiating a slightly uneven pavement on a damp day...

I would not do it without proper advice from people who are going to stand with me in the event of a problem, rather than JFDI keyboard theorists.
Do you have any training quals?
Can you find any friends with such?
 
lw395 said:
The problem is not just that money may or may not have changed hands, but that a random member of the public is being exposed to whatever risks on your boat.
Somebody with no knowledge of boats, no understanding of how it might be dangerous.
If the worst happened, there would be quite a stream of public servants looking to prosecute.
It's not just about lifejackets, think about the possibilities of injuries from winches, mainsheet blocks, whatever.

Given that these days the general public are not assumed capable of negotiating a slightly uneven pavement on a damp day...

I would not do it without proper advice from people who are going to stand with me in the event of a problem, rather than JFDI keyboard theorists.
Do you have any training quals?
Can you find any friends with such?
Click to expand...

Fair comment(s). In my "limited" defence I carried-out a very thorough safety and operations briefing and said that if I perceived any problem or risk I would immediately about the sail.
As it happened, it was a sunny day, F2-F3 sailing within the confines of Loch Ewe. All went well, and was much appreciated.

But I see what you're indicating.
Thanks
 
You should be OK without re-imbursing the fiver. A contribution towards reasonable expenses is allowed. I'd heard £15p.d. years ago and the cost of diesel has shot up significantly since then.
 
lpdsn said:
You should be OK without re-imbursing the fiver. A contribution towards reasonable expenses is allowed. I'd heard £15p.d. years ago and the cost of diesel has shot up significantly since then.
Click to expand...

I don't think the OP is receiving the fiver anyway, so it's a red herring.

Pete
 
Lots of learned opinions here, but many differ from my experience.
My daughter is an underwriter for a large insurance company who also happen to be the insurers for my boat.
I offered to donate a days sailing for two as a prize in a charity auction being organised by her office.
As I wasn't sure about the liability position I asked her to check. She asked her boss, who asked his boss and so on. Eventually the answer came back from on high that we definitely would NOT be covered under their terms of insurance conditions.
Having had a ruling we had to withdraw our offer.
I don't know if a raffle would be any different to an aucion?
 
I have done it in the past for a school chaplains fund in this case an auction of lots of stuff donated including a sail on a "racing" yacht. I did it for a few years running and really enjoyed the experience meeting new people, we provided a chcken supper.
However I get a newslestter from the local government boating authority. They had an article specifically stating they are on the lookout for people providing ilegal charters on private boats. They say they are monitoring advertising and threaten 10Ksquid fine. So the subject of ilegal charter does comes up at least here with the authorities. good luck olewill
 
Several years ago I offered a day sailing as a prize in a promises auction. It was won by a local farmer who paid £50 to the charity but never claimed his prize. I must confess that the status of my insurance never crossed my mind. JFDI
 
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