Wing wang...anybody tried a directable bowsprit?

[Keen_Ed]

I've never seen a so-called wing-wang being used, and there's scarcely anything about them on the internet.

Apparently angling the bowsprit opposite the mainsail (and thereby out of the main's wind-shadow) allows an asymmetric spinnaker to hold its shape even dead downwind. The wing-wang is the tackle which allows port/starboard adjustment.

It seems they're used on a handful of high performance dinghies, but of course they mainly take advantage of their planing ability, for reaching more rapidly in downwind diagonals than they could ever go with the wind following directly...

True high performance boats - 18 skiffs, cats etc don't bother. Keep the tack on the centreline, build speed before depth. Gybing bowsprits are only used in medium performance boats that, for various reasons (normally sail-handling), don't want to use standard spinnaker poles.

 

[TSB240]

Dan

Whilst you might be considering the asymetric route. Have you ever thought about using your symetric kite in the same way as some of the older one designs still do.

Check out the Conway Fife design and the Menai Straits OD. They still continue to fly their spinnakers off a pole but inside their jibs. It does mean that in effect your kite just becomes a windward extension of the luff of the Jib. Controlling launch and recovery is much simpler also.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/25954926@N05/

http://royalangleseyyc.org.uk/?page_id=48

 

[Keen_Ed]

Only done in boats that require it by class rules. Makes gybing a nightmare, and v. inefficient from an aerodynamic perspective.

 

[DJE]

Didn't P J O'Rourke write something about How To Sail Fast....Oh no wait that was something else...

 

[DJE]

This is how it is done on the Bull 7000. Note the forestay mounted on top of the pole pivot. We once got a gybe seriously wrong, the pole end went in the water, broke the pivot and the rig came down!

 

[TSB240]

Only done in boats that require it by class rules. Makes gybing a nightmare, and v. inefficient from an aerodynamic perspective.

Is this comment from real life experinence or just an opinion....

I don't think Dan is bothered about class rules or aerodynamic efficiency!

Is he really considering gybing when he is solo on a trapeze! I want to watch if so!

Gybing from my actual memory of sailing such classes usually involved recovery inside the jib and a lee of the main before relaunch on opposite tack . I dont recall any issues of flyaway kites even on windy days!

I cant say the same for my father's mast Head rigged 20 foot day sailer with a big head kite! :encouragement:

 

[Greenheart]

Gentlemen, I thank you all for commenting. I hadn't realised anyone had replied...I think my email alerts were going to the junk-folder.

I arrived at the decision to get an asymmetric after contemplating the Osp's standard spinnaker and finally reaching the conclusion that it's just not big enough to justify the hassle of pole and extra lines, when I often have my hands full sailing alone, as it is.

I reckon the asymmetric is a good bet, mainly because (I hope) it won't require as much skill and attentiveness as a conventional kite...so on those force-two days, I can set it like an outrageous distended genoa and just enjoy the increased pace.

...but dead downwind, where I find myself more often than might be expected, clearly the asymm is a bit of a wash-out, hence I liked the idea of poling the tack to windward...

...but, maybe now that I'm dissuaded from using my existing pole as a bowsprit, I could use it to pole the asymmetric's clew out, opposite the main, goose-winged...

...and perhaps with that arrangement, I won't need a bowsprit at all? Now I'm inspired. I've even drawn a pic, what d'you think? I know, I haven't allowed for the luff being saggier when it isn't poled-out...

Since paying, I've looked hard for the dimensions of various dinghy-spinnaker luffs to see photos of something that might compare with what I've bought, but I haven't found any, anywhere on the net...

...so the sail I've bought (I know nothing about the type of boat it came from) could be laughably unsuitable. If I remember correctly, the luff is 22ft, the foot is 12ft 6...

...now, I know that the Osprey's spinnaker U-bolt is 15ft 6 above the deck, and the mast maintains its full thickness (and presumably its full strength) until 18 inches above that point...so I could put a new bolt in up there to hoist the asymm a bit higher...

...but still, that leaves 5ft 6 inches of luff-length to be taken up by the curve, (plus whatever trigonometry makes the distance to the tip of the sprit to be)...it begins to sound rather a lot to me... :hopeless:

...would anyone like to voice an opinion on my unseen purchase, based upon its dimensions? And how long my bowsprit should be?

 

[lw395]

How high the halyard should be is a question of how much you dare load the mast. The forward pull on the mast will try to fold the mast, and it will try harder, the more it's above the hounds. A lot of 400 masts have gone this way. Ironically perhaps, it's less of a problem the higher and harder you sail, as the leach tension from the sheeted in main pulls the top of the mast back.

From then, as you say, you need to get the sail flying and see what luff curve looks nice, then do the trig....


Dead down wind does not pay except when you need to follow a straight channel or something. Again, do the trig, head up 15 degrees, the apparent moves forward a lot (particularly in lighter winds) and you go a lot faster and only have a little extra distance to sail.
However sailing on rivers or the edge of a bank to cheat the tide, it is nice to be able to go dead down wind!

 

[Greenheart]

Thanks for that LW395, I definitely can't afford to damage my mast.

I'd like to believe that it wouldn't be in much peril in a force 2 with the asymm hoisted just 18 inches above the hounds, but if the sail looks like it can be set reasonably well, hooked to the standard spinnaker attachment, I won't risk anything higher.

Photos here if it works, I promise...if my mate in the RIB can waterproof his camera...yes, I'll be too busy trapezing as well. :hopeless:

 

[Triassic]

I use a similar principal although being a trimaran I can use a different method. I pass the tack line through a block before it turns on the bowsprit and then this block is attached to a line that runs out to the float bows (the line is actually a loop that runs to one bow, back across the foredeck, and then out to the other bow). This enables me to slacken the tack line and then pull it out to either float bow, or anywhere in-between. When it is useful is in very light winds when you can't build enough boat speed to bring the apparent forward, otherwise it's generally faster to keep it central and the wind nearer the beam. I use it more when cruising than when racing.