Wing V Fin

Seven Spades

Seven Spades

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 Aug 2003
Messages
4,958
Location
Surrey
Visit site
I am considering a Starlight 39 but it has two versions. Wing and fin, am I correct in think that the problem with the wing keel is that it will add drag be more likely to snag a pot other flotsom and mean I will have to reduce sail earlier? Obviously there are benifits of a shallow keel in terms of access to harbours and creeks etc.

What about residule values, would a wing keel put you off?
 
I wouldn't consider a wing keel because when you run aground you can't get free by heeling the boat - the draught increases. This is the same problem as with bilge keels, but with bilge keels you don't mind drying out whereas balancing on a wing keel can be a bit precarious.
I also think wing keels are a bit of a gimmick, but no doubt there are many advocates who understand the hydrodynamics involved better than I do.
 
I suppose it depends on the type of sailing you plan on doing. Wing could be more likely to snag pots etc, but will allow you to creek crawl and get into shallower anchorages.

For offshore and rougher stuff I imagine a deeper fin would be better.

As for drag - I doubt the difference would be that apparant.

No idea on residuals I'm afraid - have a browse on yachtworld.com or ask on the owners association site?

Jonny
 
You might be interested in this site by Mike Lucas who specialises in Starlight / Sadlers. Go to articles, then Mike Lucas Keel choice. The relevent sections are shown here:-

Wind Keels
=======
The Starlight range of boats emerged in 1989 with wing keels with the advantage that the concept had been well tried and largely accepted by that stage. Following the success of wing keels in America Cup racing, much development work was done by many of the notable naval architects. Stephen Jones designed a sophisticated all lead keel for the Starlight and this was felt to be a major contributory factor to the exceptional sea keeping capability, directional stability and windward performance. In fact, a number of Sadler 34s had earlier been fitted with wing keels designed by Warwick Collins, this being a tandem keel of unusual design. However, it failed to catch on, but was successfully applied to the few boats that were built with it.

Deep Fin Keels
==========
Although lead wing keels have been fitted to most Starlights, a few have had deep fin keels, either because draft was not a problem (one boat went to Scotland), or it was necessary to optimise rating and light weather performance for racing purposes. The few Starlights built with fin keels did achieve the objectives required, although the remarkable directional stability down wind, with a wing keel, was adversely affected once a fin keel was fitted.

Hope this helps
 
I would have thought that finding a Starlight 39 for sale would be the biggest challenge, forget deciding which keel you would prefer. Fabulous boats, probably the best British boat ever (IMO)
 
I once saw a Wind keeled '39 out of the water that had had a clout on one wing tip, enough to take a chunk out of it. These Starlight wings are releatively large and the force of the impact had skewed the keel on its stub.

Another consideration is how you paint the underside of the Wing when it's time to anti-foul. It would have to be done in the hoist slings.
 
This only applies if you run aground whilst motoring. A normal heel angle whilst sailing will be well beyond the point at which the heel angle starts making the boat shallower again.
 
I looked at buying one but decided that the cost v the build quality just didn't add up. Well, the Sadler built ones anyway. Delaminating decks on one and keel/hull problems on the other.

Probably £30,000 to £40,000 overpriced.
 
There is little practical difference in speed between the two keels - the fin may be marinally quicker in most conditions, particularly light airs up wind. The wing tends to damp down pitching giving a slower, more comfortable motion and gives the feel of a larger boat. This is most noticeable when punching into a head sea when there is a tendency for a wing keel to drive on better and keep speed up. Also down wind they give better directional control.

Disadvantages are high wetted surface; problems with grounding and drying out and antifouling the underneath.
 
I looked at Starlite 39s and agree that the design is brilliant however I would have thought that the build quality is rather more important than the keel. The wing works v well and I was told that they only ever made one deep fin 39. The construction process is very suspect and eventually put me off. One of the most forgiving boats you will ever sail, one of Stephen's best cruising designs.
 
[ QUOTE ]
There is little practical difference in speed between the two keels - the fin may be marinally quicker in most conditions, particularly light airs up wind. The wing tends to damp down pitching giving a slower, more comfortable motion and gives the feel of a larger boat. This is most noticeable when punching into a head sea when there is a tendency for a wing keel to drive on better and keep speed up. Also down wind they give better directional control.

Disadvantages are high wetted surface; problems with grounding and drying out and antifouling the underneath.

[/ QUOTE ]An excellent summary, which I can endorse (Freestyle was designed by Warwick Collins and has one of his wing keels.) When sailors familiar with conventional keels come out in any kind of a blow, they invariably make remarks like "She's very long-legged" or "She certainly punches through them".

Having 60% of the weight of the keel in the wing puts the keel's centre of gravity only a few inches from its lowest point - to get the same COG in a fin you need a large bulb or much greater depth.
 
I have heard other say this too about good downwind control and that a wing keel helps in avoiding a broach. Any idea why this is?
 
After five fin-keeled boats, I bought a wing-keeled Dehler 35, thereby saving half a meter of draft compared to the fin (1.5 vs 1.95m).

After 4 seasons, our experience backs up what you say.

I was concerned about the boat being more tender - not so.

I was sceptical about the hype of the Warwick Collins Tandem Keel and its ability to dampen pitching, but it does actually do this, and it does make the boat feel larger.

Another point to bear in mind is that the rudder may be same one for both keels (on the Dehler it is) and this means it may draw only slightly less than the wing keel.

I have only once touched bottom at low water when anchored, and having heard horror stories about the keel sticking to the mud, expected it to make getting clear more difficult - not so. However, drying out against scrubbing posts can be interesting, because you can't 'lean' the boat.

After 33 years with fin keelers, I'm sold on the wing's benefits far outweighing its drawbacks (especially on the East Coast).
 
Thanks for the responses. Two of the above posts allude to suspect quality problems, are these problems with this model in general or older boats. The one I was considering is a 1996 model and if so what should I look out for?
 
No it was the 35 where a batch had all the delamination probs. The question is more about the life expectancy of the liners and foam. You can't get into the void to sort/check things. Also Bowmans was like a home activity centre with no quality controls or organisation at all, that's the primary reason they went bust. Difficult to know what you were getting. That's why I walked away.
 
We're selling our Catalina (wing keel) and have already bought a fin keeler to replace her. We've never had a problem with the wing keel and, being east coasters, always appreciated the benefits of a shallower draft. The fin keeler points higher but it's a completely different boat in many other ways too so it would be wrong to attribute the difference purely to one factor.

We didn't seek out a fin keel - it's just that the boat we fell in love with came with one. I suspect if you're after a Starlight it'll be the same - ie you'll find the boat you want and take whatever keel is stuck to the bottom!

Simon
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top