Windvane steering.

[Daydream believer]

Yes I can and it does both. Motoring we do not notice the rattling above all the other noise, at anchor we do a little as we sleep in the aft cabin

We remove the rudder when not in use

As you are a hydrovane user may I ask what it is like reversing. I have an Aeries lift up & even without raising the steering oar I do not notice any effect when reversing. But if the blade on a Hydrovane is large enough to steer the boat it must have an effect, unless one can rotate it through 180 degrees or raise it very quickly. How do you deal with this?

 

[Daydream believer]

I do not know what size boat the Op has but I have a n Aeries lift up gear. I bought this because it can be detached for racing in under a minute. However. it is very heavy & although my Hanse is wide sterned by the time I get extra fuel, A life raft etc in the rear end I do notice the weight. If I bought another I think I would go for a Monitor as it is supposed to be a lot lighter
However, I have looked at lots of windvanes over the years & i have noticed that most of the Dutch, German & Scandinavian boats have the Windpilot & they are mostly wheel steered boats. Those I have spoken to all say that they are excellent. However, they are all bigger boats than mine.

 

[Koeketiene]

I do not know what size boat the Op has but I have a n Aeries lift up gear. I bought this because it can be detached for racing in under a minute. However. it is very heavy & although my Hanse is wide sterned by the time I get extra fuel, A life raft etc in the rear end I do notice the weight. If I bought another I think I would go for a Monitor as it is supposed to be a lot lighter

I doubt it.
When I was looking at windvanes, it was a toss up between Monitor and Aeries. The Aeries I could easily lift on my own, when I eventually bought a Monitor, it needed two people to put it in the booth of my car (though the fact that the Monitor was larger may have had something to do with it).

 

[macd]

If I bought another I think I would go for a Monitor as it is supposed to be a lot lighter.

If you haven't done so already, I'd suggest you download Peter Forthmann's (owner of Windpilot) excellent book on windvane steering, which is free, here: http://www.windpilot.com/n/pdf/bookeng.pdf

On pages 118-120 you'll find a succint comparison of commercially made systems, incuding their weight. The pages following give a more detailed analysis of these systems. The book is some years old so doesn't include systems such as the Neptune, which seems remarkably similar to the Windpilot Pacific, anayway.

 

[Goldie]

Hi is the Hydrovane the only wind steering system that gives you an auxiliary rudder , quite like the idea of it doubling up just in case of a rudder problem ....

I think the Monitor offers a solution to this - they call it the MRud. No experience but it may be worth a look on their website.

 

[capnsensible]

After 2 transatlantics on our centre cockpit Moody 33, I can report I am completely happy with our Hydrovane. Works great and for light winds I use a tiller pilot on a pushpit bracket to drive the rudder.

Its name is Robby.

 

[Budgieboy]

Have used a Hydrovane across the Atlantic , excellent piece of kit / engineering , loved the fact it also doubled up as a spare rudder system as well ....

 

[Minchsailor]

I fitted a Monitor to my previous boat (Nicholson 32), and the present one (Rustler 36) came with a Hydrovane. Both tiller steered.

I think I prefer the Monitor. It seems to hold the course slightly better, especially off the wind.

However:

1. The course setting is easier with the Hydrovane (1 turn of the drum = 6 deg).
2. I like the way the Monitor paddle/blade can be raised.
3. For motoring I use the Hydrovane with a tillerpilot and the rudder clamped - uses far fewer amps and much less strain on the tillerpilot. Surprisingly, has good manoeuvrability down to a couple of knots.
4. If the rudder could not be clamped (lost?) I doubt if the small paddle/blade of the Hydrovane could steer a less than perfectly balanced boat.
5. With a transom hung rudder (Rustler 36), the Hydrovane cannot be mounted on the centreline, it is offset. I have a gut feeling that this does affect its performance when well heeled.

 

[BobnLesley]

...strong suspicion is that most problems with any wheel-steered servo-pendulum system are due to excessive drag in the boat's own steering...

That sounds logical, though I'm sure that I've heard somewhere that windvanes don't work quite so well with hydraulic steering systems?

We have a Monitor attached to our wheel-steered boat it works brilliantly and love it. In 'competition' with friends using Hydrovanes our Monitor has invariably 'won', though that's admittedly not conclusive as our relative small size and long keel give us an advantage over most to begin with but with a stern-cockpit boat I would always prefer to go for a servo-pendulum unit, with a centre cockpit then I think that advantage would be much reduced due to the longer control lines needed.

As part of our set-up, we did have a home-built copy of an Mrud emergency rudder on board and in a flat-weather trial, we got it to work reasonably with the main rudder locked fore and aft, but it was completely useless with the main rudder offset. It took a lot of space up and in our situation (long keel, very securely fixed rudder) where a jammed rather than lost rudder is our likely problem, we decided it was space that could be better used. That decision was helped by the belief (having now been out in the big wide ocean) that our home-built rudder unit wouldn't have been strong enough to last very long out there anyway.

I noted a question about potential reversing problems with the Hydrovane: Whilst our pendulum blade hinges-up, I have on several occasions left it down whilst manouvering and found that a slight benefit can be perceived, I suspect that this benefit would be better still with a fixed-blade like the Hydrovane? Again, this is hardly conclusive, I'm finding that our revering ability is still appalling, just slightly less so than usual.

 

[Daydream believer]

I doubt it.
When I was looking at windvanes, it was a toss up between Monitor and Aeries. The Aeries I could easily lift on my own, when I eventually bought a Monitor, it needed two people to put it in the booth of my car (though the fact that the Monitor was larger may have had something to do with it).

I have the lift up Aeries & it is very heavy. I have no practical experience of the latest design of aeries

 

[BobnLesley]

Hi

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NZmi8lmI8Aw

when I did the video I had only just fitted it so some turning blocks were only temporarily located. It will be even better when the blocks are secured.

Dave

Hi Dave, don't (as I did) make that installation too 'pretty'. When I originally installed our Monitor I used two small, cute blocks - perfectly sized for the 6mm control lines - which stacked neatly atop each other, then though-bolted them with a pair of long 5mm s/steel machine screws to the top of the cockpit coaming; it looked really neat and tidy and worked perfectly.
Several months later in some big following seas, one of those through-bolts broke; the loads on the blocks at that turn are massive; it's the only failure we've had on our Monitor. Don't size those blocks to suit the control lines, instead choose some good big ones that you can get decent sized fixing bolts through. Subsequently we've shackled the two blocks to an 8mm eye-bolt, with a massive backing-plate that projects up from the coaming, but this thread has just reminded me of my intention to replace even that with a 10 or perhaps 12mm bolt, as it too is beginning to bend.

 

[john_q]

After 2 transatlantics on our centre cockpit Moody 33, I can report I am completely happy with our Hydrovane. Works great and for light winds I use a tiller pilot on a pushpit bracket to drive the rudder.

Its name is Robby.

Ours is called "Del Boy"

 

[oldvarnish]

Hi Dave, don't (as I did) make that installation too 'pretty'. When I originally installed our Monitor I used two small, cute blocks - perfectly sized for the 6mm control lines - which stacked neatly atop each other, then though-bolted them with a pair of long 5mm s/steel machine screws to the top of the cockpit coaming; it looked really neat and tidy and worked perfectly.
Several months later in some big following seas, one of those through-bolts broke; the loads on the blocks at that turn are massive; it's the only failure we've had on our Monitor. Don't size those blocks to suit the control lines, instead choose some good big ones that you can get decent sized fixing bolts through. Subsequently we've shackled the two blocks to an 8mm eye-bolt, with a massive backing-plate that projects up from the coaming, but this thread has just reminded me of my intention to replace even that with a 10 or perhaps 12mm bolt, as it too is beginning to bend.

This is good advice. I had pretty little blocks which were fine for coastal cruising but more or less exploded when dealing with a big, following ocean sea.

 

[KellysEye]

>Can anyone with a hydrovane comment about the claimed constant rattling caused by prop wash when motoring & the steering rudder left in the idle state

We sailed/motored over 10,000nms with a Hydrovane and never heard the vane rudder rattle. We spent six and a half years in the Caribbean and the majority of windvanes were Hydrovanes. We also saw two Aries windvanes frozen solid by dissimilar metals.

 

[AHoy2]

Hi Dave, don't (as I did) make that installation too 'pretty'. When I originally installed our Monitor I used two small, cute blocks - perfectly sized for the 6mm control lines - which stacked neatly atop each other, then though-bolted them with a pair of long 5mm s/steel machine screws to the top of the cockpit coaming; it looked really neat and tidy and worked perfectly.
Several months later in some big following seas, one of those through-bolts broke; the loads on the blocks at that turn are massive; it's the only failure we've had on our Monitor. Don't size those blocks to suit the control lines, instead choose some good big ones that you can get decent sized fixing bolts through. Subsequently we've shackled the two blocks to an 8mm eye-bolt, with a massive backing-plate that projects up from the coaming, but this thread has just reminded me of my intention to replace even that with a 10 or perhaps 12mm bolt, as it too is beginning to bend.

This is good advice. I had pretty little blocks which were fine for coastal cruising but more or less exploded when dealing with a big, following ocean sea.

Useful observations for me. I have read recommendations to incorporate a weak link in the actuation lines by fixing one block per run with cordage rather than bolting on. Not experienced these conditions but looking at the forces experienced on your systems that seems good advice, easier to repair underway and a predictable failure scenario.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

Useful observations for me. I have read recommendations to incorporate a weak link in the actuation lines by fixing one block per run with cordage rather than bolting on. Not experienced these conditions but looking at the forces experienced on your systems that seems good advice, easier to repair underway and a predictable failure scenario.

I agree perfectly with the principle of having a weak link, thereby providing a predictable failure point in an extraordinary situation.
However, doesn't extreme load on the pulleys indicate that something is amiss with sail balancing?

 

[AHoy2]

I agree perfectly with the principle of having a weak link, thereby providing a predictable failure point in an extraordinary situation.
However, doesn't extreme load on the pulleys indicate that something is amiss with sail balancing?

As both refer to big following seas it would be good to have some feedback on sail config at the time and hull/rudder type if that is more of a factor.

 

[Koeketiene]

I have read recommendations to incorporate a weak link in the actuation lines by fixing one block per run with cordage rather than bolting on.

Interesting approach.
I tend to over-spec everything.

 

[SvenH]

recommendations to incorporate a weak link in the actuation lines by fixing one block per run with cordage rather than bolting on.

If you run too much of the cordage, it will eventually be as strong or stronger than the steering lines.

Cordage is also excellent to mount a guide block close to its mounting point and rattle free.

 

[rubbishman]

>Can anyone with a hydrovane comment about the claimed constant rattling caused by prop wash when motoring & the steering rudder left in the idle state

We sailed/motored over 10,000nms with a Hydrovane and never heard the vane rudder rattle. We spent six and a half years in the Caribbean and the majority of windvanes were Hydrovanes. We also saw two Aries windvanes frozen solid by dissimilar metals.

Not wishing to get into a pissing contest but I put a few miles on my Hydrovane and within a remarkably short time it rattled like a good un.Only bothered me at anchor so I used to put the pin in that kept the tiller stub central and tie off the rudder safety line hard onto the aft quarter.Later on I fitted a 316" shoe" on the top of the rudder as the sloppy fit was getting worse.The nylon blade to rudder stock connection is not a great piece of engineering.I'd still buy one but secondhand.Re; astern work I'm crap at maneuvering boats under power so at least it's something to blame if it all goes pear shaped.