Windvane steering for Moody 33

[sadlersailing]

Hi I have recently bought a Moody 33 centre cockpit which has 2 stainless steps on the stern, I am trying to find out which windvane steering system would be the ideal one to fit. I am looking for 2nd hand setups and dont want to buy a system thats not suitable, I need a little help!

 

[BurnitBlue]

Hi I have recently bought a Moody 33 centre cockpit which has 2 stainless steps on the stern, I am trying to find out which windvane steering system would be the ideal one to fit. I am looking for 2nd hand setups and dont want to buy a system thats not suitable, I need a little help!

If you are going for a second-hand gear then my guess is that you may have to take what is available. Most pro gears will work. Just avoid the home built jobs.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Talking from total ignorance here, but whenever I've looked at wind-vane sites, they always claim they can be fitted to just about any shape of transom (and the M33 CC transom is hardly an odd shaped one). My suspicion therefore is that if you buy a known brand with a current distributor, secondhand, you'll be able to order the extra kit new that you need to fit it to your boat. Centre cockpit, wheel steering is - anyway - likely to require some extra bits to get the tiller lines over the stern deck and onto the wheel.

 

[rickym]

I am looking at a Hydrovane for my CC westerly Corsair not sure if yards of string between the transom and wheel would be truly satisfactory?

 

[Tranona]

A Hydrovane does not require connection with the wheel as it has its own independent rudder. That is what makes it so attractive. However, it is very expensive new and rarely comes up secondhand.

Very few firms make windvane gear because it is not easy to fit modern boats (particularly with CC and wheel steering) and electronic autopilots have become cheaper, more reliable and versatile.

So suggest you get all the information you can about existing gear so that you understand what you are looking for.

 

[Phideaux]

It might be worth you reading the free book on the different wind-steering mechanisms and models available, along with their various pro's and con's. this can be found at http://windpilot.com/n/pdf/bookeng.pdf

 

[macd]

I am looking at a Hydrovane for my CC westerly Corsair not sure if yards of string between the transom and wheel would be truly satisfactory?

[Drat...Tranona and Phideaux got in there while I was typing]

The Hydrovane steers it's own rudder. There's no need for yards of string to the wheel, which is simply locked off when using the Hydrovane.

To Sadlersailing, I'd urge you to download 'Self-Steering under Sail' by Peter Forthmann from http://windpilot.com/
The download is completely free and will tell you all you need to know about all types of self-steering systems. Forthmann is the proprietor of Windpilot, which he naturally favours, although his treatment is fairly even-handed.

I'd also recommend a visit to www.cruisenews.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=62 which is a forum dedicated to windvane steering: stacks of hands-on experience, plus the odd system for sale.

For a centre-cockpit yacht your choices are fairly limited, since with one exception you'll need a system which steers its own rudder rather than the ship's rudder. As mentioned, Hydrovane qualifies, as does the Windpilot Pacific Plus and one or two others. The exception is the Cape Horn, which actuates the steering quadrant directly (rather than the wheel) so can be used on centre cockpit boats. I can't remember Cape Horn's website, but Google should find it easily.

You'll probably see lots of posts saying how wonderful the Hydrovane is. Treat them with caution. Unlike all other current windvane set-ups the Hydrovane is not a servo system which in my view means it misses an important trick. A close friend, a vastly experienced sailor, has one and is pretty scathing about its inability to steer on some points of wind (NOT downwind, which is often regarded as wind vanes' weakness).

Wind vane systems of all types tend to hold their value pretty well. Don't be surprised to be asked for half the price of a new one even for an elderly used one.

 

[Williwaw]

Some servo-pendulum vanes, such as Sailomat and Windpilot, can be mounted off-centre to clear boarding steps, though this can require a longer rudder to maintain sufficient immersion when the yacht heels with the gear on the uphill side. Better though to move the steps off-centre if you can, to get the vane gear on the centreline.

The cost of buying spares, or making one-offs, to fit a secondhand vane to your yacht may absorb much of the cost saving from a new, properly-specified windvane.

The Hydrovane is an excellent but expensive product that is particularly well-suited to a centre cockpit yacht. Its installation cost will be the lowest, which helps to offset the initial purchase cost.

All windvanes work, more or less equally well. I have seen most of them at our Owners Association rallies and have never met anyone dissatisfied with a particular model. (Mine is a Sailomat 601).

 

[MASH]

Sadlersailing, check your private messages.

 

[Poignard]

Hi I have recently bought a Moody 33 centre cockpit which has 2 stainless steps on the stern, I am trying to find out which windvane steering system would be the ideal one to fit. I am looking for 2nd hand setups and dont want to buy a system thats not suitable, I need a little help!

The basic unit in the Monitor is of a standard design with mounting tubes available to suit the particular type of boat. I would be surpised if they didn't have mounting tubes for Moodys available 'off-the-shelf'.

http://www.selfsteer.com/boats/index.php?page=16

 

[Baggy]

). You'll probably see lots of posts saying how wonderful the Hydrovane is. Treat them with caution. Unlike all other current windvane set-ups the Hydrovane is not a servo system which in my view means it misses an important trick. A close friend, a vastly experienced sailor, has one and is pretty scathing about its inability to steer on some points of wind (NOT downwind, which is often regarded as wind vanes' weakness


I have used a hydrovane on my centre cockpit westerly, sailing the atlantic for over 5 years
and have NEVER had any problems on any point of sail during this time
She has behaved brilliantly... would not leave home with out it now

You will get problems if over canvased...
also.... sometimes I use my main rudder as a trim tab to maintain a steadier course..

I know they are expensive.. but you may get most off your money back on the re-sale market

 

[KellysEye]

>Hydrovane is not a servo system which in my view means it misses an important trick.

What important trick would that be?

>A close friend, a vastly experienced sailor, has one and is pretty scathing about its inability to steer on some points of wind (NOT downwind, which is often regarded as wind vanes' weakness).

That sort of thing is said by people who don't know how to balance a boat. I've experienced that because two boats who fitted a Hydravne were complaining it wouldn't steer straight. I went out sailing with both and both had always sailed with weather helm. The moment I got them to balance the boat the Hydrovane was fine. The other thing is once bakanced the boat must be kept balanced, for example with any change of COG. We 've never had any trouble on any point of sail in winds from 5 to 50 knots.

The OP desn't say where the swimming ladder is positioned. If it's in the centre of the stern the Hydrovane is the only vane gear that works fine when it is offset. Also it is the only vane that can act as an emergency rudder.

 

[jonic]

I have fiitted a Hydrovane to a CC Westerly Corsair and a CC Moody 38. Both off centre for the swim ladder. No problems whatsoever with either.

On the Westerly it had to cope with a 55kt storm (downwind) and it was excellent.

 

[sailor211]

For a centre-cockpit yacht your choices are fairly limited, since with one exception you'll need a system which steers its own rudder rather than the ship's rudder. As mentioned, Hydrovane qualifies, as does the Windpilot Pacific Plus and one or two others. The exception is the Cape Horn, which actuates the steering quadrant directly (rather than the wheel) so can be used on centre cockpit boats. I can't remember Cape Horn's website, but Google should find it easily.

.

I do not agree re centre cockpits. I have a monitor on a centre cockpit Westerly and it works well. Sting led through a few blocks, precision alignment and is not in the way .

One Benifit over hydrovane the ability to lift the paddle . I use teh monoto most days i go out but most hydrovane users do not leave the paddle attached. I may be pain in reverse with a full rudder in situ. I have forgotten the monitor rudder a couple of times and close quarters manouvering in a marina, with a fierce crosstide, makes interesting watching for those with G&T in hand watching.


It would be easy to fit a monitor to a Moody or most other boats . It would require 4 lengths of tube bent to shape and cut to dimension. Rudder vertical on CL with 150mm of rudder above waterline in cruising trim. if a very slooping stern maybe a pair of stiffining structs.

 

[macd]

"Hydrovane is not a servo system which in my view means it misses an important trick."

What important trick would that be?

"A close friend, a vastly experienced sailor, has one and is pretty scathing about its inability to steer on some points of wind (NOT downwind, which is often regarded as wind vanes' weakness)."

That sort of thing is said by people who don't know how to balance a boat. Also it is the only vane that can act as an emergency rudder.

1. Self-evidently that "trick" would be the use of a servo (powered by an articulated oar in the water) to give the system more power. In the case of the Hydrovane, all the power comes from the wind vane itself (the reason it is larger than most others). In servo-pendulum systems, the wind vane inputs no power to the system, just directional instructions.

2. Jon, the person in question most certainly knows how to balance a boat. That said, I don't question your experiences in the slightest. Nor do I question Jon's.

3. You're quite wrong in asserting that the Hydrovane is the only one that can be used as an emergency rudder. Both the Sailomat and Windpilot Pacific Plus can be used in this way.

I am not saying the Hydrovane is a bad piece of kit. There's heaps of anecdotal evidence to the contrary. But I would (and did) chose something else, and not on the basis of cost.

 

[Poignard]

>... Also it is the only vane that can act as an emergency rudder....

Not true - the Monitor can be supplied with an attachment allowing it to be used as an emergency rudder (although not cheap) :

http://www.selfsteer.com/products/monitor/mrud.php

 

[KellysEye]

>the case of the Hydrovane, all the power comes from the wind vane itself (the reason it is larger than most others).

You imply that the fact that the power comes from the wind vane is a problem and I don't see why. Hydrovanes come in different sized rudders and 'sails' to match the weight of the boat and they don't use unecessary lines to the wheel/tiller. Which sounds good to me and is good in practice.

In respect of other vane gear acting as an emergency rudder I'd be interested to hear someone who has done it. Looking at them the rudders are too small to be effective in any decent wind and sea.

 

[capnsensible]

Well, how about ignoring speculation!

I live on a Moody 33 centre cockpit yacht.

I have a hydrovane.

I have sailed across the atlantic with them. Twice.

Dogs gonads, utterly brilliant. They dont come with differant sized whatevers. One size fits all. Once yer normal rudder is locked off, the hydrovane does the rest, ANY point of sail. Just spend 11 or 12 seconds setting it right.

You can easily steer the boat from aft deck, lavac heads pump handle slots in nicely.

We had a wee stainless bracket made that clamps on pushpit. Combined wth cheapo tiller pilot, used when motoring. Only use wheel for sticking boat alongside, have done it using bilge pump handle solution....er... coz I can!!

When fitting, move the ladder. Not hard. Can be used off centreline, but doesn't look seamanlike.

Anyway, thats my thoughts, good luck.

CS

 

[MASH]

It's hard to think of a reason to prefer a direct acting vane over a servo system because the servo must work better and under more varied conditions (boat balance as well as weather). Particularly in light winds or downwind when windspeed over deck is very low and a quick and positive response is needed. Why use a marginal system when there is a powerful one available?
The fact that automotive systems are now servo powered (brakes, steering) and so so much better than the old self-powered ones tells the whole story...who would want to go back to that?

 

[Tradewinds]

When fitting, move the ladder. Not hard. Can be used off centreline, but doesn't look seamanlike.

Was with you there until this last bit

Had a Hydrovane on my Nic39 since 1993 - it's taken me on a circumnavigation + jaunts to Holland nowadays. It's off-centre because of the bathing ladder.

Doesn't look seamanlike - Tosh!