Windows or iOS?

[Sticky Fingers]

^No MS Office included. You get Apple's equivalent which is err, slightly OK. I'm a Mac user but I've stuck with a paid Office365 sub

 

[poter]

Having been there, especially with crappy Ipads (and expensive) I have opted for Navionics Europe HD (£ 50) this is with all the Nav. software and charts on my Samsung Tablet, for Navigation in cockpit and the Navionics boating app for windows (free) plus the charts from Navionics.
Best of both worlds plus 100%^ backup.
Oh and it works.

 

[Godfather68]

All I have to decide now is whether to Pro or not to Pro.

I would say whichever of the technology you decide to go with, get the best you can afford. I usually go for the latest minus 1, so you don't pay for the very latest, but it is still current enough that it won't be too underpowered too quickly. If you do go for the iPad and go Pro, look carefully because they are not all the same, the chips in them changed, so again on the refurbished site, the ipad pro 9.7" has the A9X chip, but the iPad Pro 10.5" has the A10X chip and in the 12.9 inch I think it changed a year or two back, some having the A9X and the newer ones having A10X. My point being you may be able to get a good deal on a Pro with the slightly older chip set.

 

[Pauly]

Well, the bullet has been bitten. I went into Waitrose this evening for a few bits and pieces and wandered into the adjoining John Lewis for a snoop around the tech section. I found a reasonable looking Lenovo item for a shade over 200 quid, running Win 10. Tried to have a tinker, seemed nice to use, touchscreen and clip on keyboard. After a few minutes things stopped reacting and I got bored and went to look at the iPads. Had a fiddle there and everything seemed to be working.Went back to the Windows box and saw a message on screen saying that the computer was restarting. It was right there that I decided to buy the iPad. I found an assistant, spent the next 20 minutes discussing my choice and handed over the readies. On the way out, Windows was still up a certain stretch of water without a particular rowing instrument. So, this post comes to you courtesy of iPad.
Thank you all for your contributions, for the most part very helpful.


Here’s hoping I don’t live to regret my choice. I do however have 35 days to change my mind for an exchange or refund.

 

[wotayottie]

. But I have learnt from personal experience of being the "IT Guy" in the family that the non-technical family members who have adopted iPads vs anything else are more self sufficient, have less issues and are generally better protected from Virus and other malicious content than virtually every other form of tech. But to stress again, I am not saying, Windows, Linux or Android are bad and I am certainly not saying Apple is cheap or that they last forever, they don't.

Thats my impression. Apple have made a business out of selling a simple straightforward system that works to the women and arty men who cant be bothered with understanding the systems themselves. There are people who are interested in what is "under the hood". There are a lot more who just want to drive. They are the Apple customers to thoroughly mix metafores

 

[Sticky Fingers]

...Apple have made a business out of selling a simple straightforward system that works to the women and arty men who cant be bothered with understanding the systems themselves....

Outstandingly obnoxious.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Thats my impression. Apple have made a business out of selling a simple straightforward system that works to the women and arty men who cant be bothered with understanding the systems themselves. There are people who are interested in what is "under the hood". There are a lot more who just want to drive. They are the Apple customers to thoroughly mix metafores

What a load of patronising bull. "Arty types and women'! I know I only did computer science for a year before I saw the light and read philosophy and theology, but I have a genuine interest in the architecture of the computer and built an eight bit micro once from chips up. Hard wired the address buses etc etc.

The Computer is a tool. If there's a system that I can use without worrying about all the myriad of problems I have to worry about when using a PC with Windoze, then why would I bother 'having to learn...' Its not a question of can't be bothered as being bothered or having to learn the tricks of MS is a complete waste of time. What will it achieve? Will it make me more productive? Will it help me produce documents or access and manipulate spreadsheets and presentations any better? I've played the MS game once and it got quite interesting being able to manipulate the way the system ran, but in truth its a complete waste of energy. The obvious answer is not to bother and use a system that doesn't need inside knowledge. The cost benefit analysis is that I /might' save some money by not spending out on Apple products. But the time I'll need to spend sorting out the Windoze system is also money...

 

[Sticky Fingers]

^ John, wot I said, 1000 x more eloquent.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I'm surprised that you have trouble with XP, our venerable laptop runs it and we've had it since before we had internet. I find it reliable and logical to use: unlike Windows 10.

I did have a Samsung Tab that died suddenly without so much as a by your leave. When I confronted the knob in the Oxford street Samsung store he told me it wasn't worth fixing. So that eventually found its way to the bin.
I must admit, I was angling towards an iPad, but I'm put off by the cost and the seemingly short service life which seems limited by planned obsolescence.
Neither am I a fan of windows, having suffered with an XP laptop for more years than I deserve. However, the example offered by Muddy Boat will definitely get a look into.
I am intrigued to know why a sim card would be important? I have Android phones should I require network access and would have thought Wi-Fi and blue tooth would be sufficient in a tab.

 

[maby]

What a load of patronising bull. "Arty types and women'! I know I only did computer science for a year before I saw the light and read philosophy and theology, but I have a genuine interest in the architecture of the computer and built an eight bit micro once from chips up. Hard wired the address buses etc etc.

The Computer is a tool. If there's a system that I can use without worrying about all the myriad of problems I have to worry about when using a PC with Windoze, then why would I bother 'having to learn...' Its not a question of can't be bothered as being bothered or having to learn the tricks of MS is a complete waste of time. What will it achieve? Will it make me more productive? Will it help me produce documents or access and manipulate spreadsheets and presentations any better? I've played the MS game once and it got quite interesting being able to manipulate the way the system ran, but in truth its a complete waste of energy. The obvious answer is not to bother and use a system that doesn't need inside knowledge. The cost benefit analysis is that I /might' save some money by not spending out on Apple products. But the time I'll need to spend sorting out the Windoze system is also money...

I think it's more complex than that, John. In fact Apple themselves say it in their latest TV adverts where a boy is sitting with his iPad and a middle aged woman says to him "Hey, Billy, what are you doing on your computer" to which he replies "What's a computer?".

Until the Mac and iPad became popular, all you could buy was a "computer" - which was great for those of us that needed a serious computer, but not so great for those that just wanted a means to consume the internet, read books of play games. The serious computer users actually got their hardware and software subsidised by the rest of the world who were buying machines they didn't really need and pushing up the sales volumes.

I design and develop software and hardware for a living and an iPad is completely unsuitable for what I need. A Microsoft Surface could do it, but they are horribly expensive for a decent specification. A standard laptop, well stuffed with memory and disk and running Windows or Linux is the best solution - I can get a well specified machine for £500 that can do the heavy lifting.

 

[JohnGC]

I think it's more complex than that, John. In fact Apple themselves say it in their latest TV adverts where a boy is sitting with his iPad and a middle aged woman says to him "Hey, Billy, what are you doing on your computer" to which he replies "What's a computer?".

Until the Mac and iPad became popular, all you could buy was a "computer" - which was great for those of us that needed a serious computer, but not so great for those that just wanted a means to consume the internet, read books of play games. The serious computer users actually got their hardware and software subsidised by the rest of the world who were buying machines they didn't really need and pushing up the sales volumes.

I design and develop software and hardware for a living and an iPad is completely unsuitable for what I need. A Microsoft Surface could do it, but they are horribly expensive for a decent specification. A standard laptop, well stuffed with memory and disk and running Windows or Linux is the best solution - I can get a well specified machine for £500 that can do the heavy lifting.

Same here.

The other thing to note is that (according to various on-line sources) at the laptop/desktop level, the market share is almost 90% Windows, just under 10% Mac with the remaining 1% shared between Linux and the rest. So there is zero incentive for engineering application developers to port to anything else unless Apple decide to support them financially. Neither would I now purchase a product to run on Apple when I have invested heavily in Windows already, am very happy with Windows and have very little problem with it.

The smartphone& market share is very different.

It's also interesting to ask, "is there more or less than a 1:10 ratio of Mac/Windows dissatisfaction reported"?

None of that stops Apple products being great at what they do. But compared to Windows, what they can do is limited by lack of applications. If you don't need those additional applications then Apple is a good option.

John

 

[GHA]

..... about all the myriad of problems I have to worry about when using a PC with Windoze, t..

Must have been a while ago, windows turns on and works these days. I prefer linux in many ways but no beef against win, it works fine. So do macs apparently, just too much cash for me.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I think it's more complex than that, John. In fact Apple themselves say it in their latest TV adverts where a boy is sitting with his iPad and a middle aged woman says to him "Hey, Billy, what are you doing on your computer" to which he replies "What's a computer?".

Until the Mac and iPad became popular, all you could buy was a "computer" - which was great for those of us that needed a serious computer, but not so great for those that just wanted a means to consume the internet, read books of play games. The serious computer users actually got their hardware and software subsidised by the rest of the world who were buying machines they didn't really need and pushing up the sales volumes.

I design and develop software and hardware for a living and an iPad is completely unsuitable for what I need. A Microsoft Surface could do it, but they are horribly expensive for a decent specification. A standard laptop, well stuffed with memory and disk and running Windows or Linux is the best solution - I can get a well specified machine for £500 that can do the heavy lifting.

Same here.

The other thing to note is that (according to various on-line sources) at the laptop/desktop level, the market share is almost 90% Windows, just under 10% Mac with the remaining 1% shared between Linux and the rest. So there is zero incentive for engineering application developers to port to anything else unless Apple decide to support them financially. Neither would I now purchase a product to run on Apple when I have invested heavily in Windows already, am very happy with Windows and have very little problem with it.

The smartphone& market share is very different.

It's also interesting to ask, "is there more or less than a 1:10 ratio of Mac/Windows dissatisfaction reported"?

None of that stops Apple products being great at what they do. But compared to Windows, what they can do is limited by lack of applications. If you don't need those additional applications then Apple is a good option.

John

So two software developers, who use Windows say they don't like Apple because they can't do their work on a Mac. Its not a relevant argument for 99% of home users.

Name me a single app that the average home user requires or wants that doesn't exist in the Mac world? I suggest that you've got to go really esoteric to find apps that only are available in the Windows system.

I agree that the real problem with Apple is their pricing structure, but while they continue to sell in the volumes that they do (and 10% of the market is not to be sniffed at) they will continue to price at what the market can stand. MacBooks are a case in point. You can buy an iMac much cheaper than an Macbook Pro which is sort of crazy. Admittedly a high end 27" iMac as used by graphic designers and their ilk is expensive, but the average user doesn't need that amount of power or that screen size. Supply and demand is what drives the market and pricing. Its wishful thinking that the demand is all down to glitz and marketing.

 

[maby]

So two software developers, who use Windows say they don't like Apple because they can't do their work on a Mac. Its not a relevant argument for 99% of home users.

....

I'm not sure that the Mac is particularly relevant to 99% of home users either - seems to me that most people are buying tablets these days - either iPad or Android.

 

[Momac]

For work we have windows computers.
For home use I use a Chromebook which has limitations but achieves most of my requirements.
I have and Android phone and prefer it to Apple.
Navigation tablet on the boat is Android too. A fraction of the price of an iPad.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I'm not sure that the Mac is particularly relevant to 99% of home users either - seems to me that most people are buying tablets these days - either iPad or Android.

I was using Mac as shorthand for Apple, but you probably knew that...

 

[john_morris_uk]

For work we have windows computers.
For home use I use a Chromebook which has limitations but achieves most of my requirements.
I have and Android phone and prefer it to Apple.
Navigation tablet on the boat is Android too. A fraction of the price of an iPad.

Good for you. I hope you are very happy with your choices. I'm not sure what point you are making though.

 

[JohnGC]

So two software developers, who use Windows say they don't like Apple because they can't do their work on a Mac. Its not a relevant argument for 99% of home users.

Name me a single app that the average home user requires or wants that doesn't exist in the Mac world? I suggest that you've got to go really esoteric to find apps that only are available in the Windows system.

I agree that the real problem with Apple is their pricing structure, but while they continue to sell in the volumes that they do (and 10% of the market is not to be sniffed at) they will continue to price at what the market can stand. MacBooks are a case in point. You can buy an iMac much cheaper than an Macbook Pro which is sort of crazy. Admittedly a high end 27" iMac as used by graphic designers and their ilk is expensive, but the average user doesn't need that amount of power or that screen size. Supply and demand is what drives the market and pricing. Its wishful thinking that the demand is all down to glitz and marketing.

I don't think I said anything which disagrees with your first line.

What I do disagree with is your statement which implies engineering requirements are "esoteric". According to the Royal Academy of Engineering, in 2015 the engineering sector of the UK economy employed 5.4m people and accounted for 24.9% of all UK turnover. Personally I think those numbers are much too large to fit with the OED definition of esoteric; Intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest. 5.4m people is about 9% of the working age population, to me at least that isn't "a small number".

I'm not trying to score Windows/Mac points, but explain why I counter the statement put forward by a few people that Apples are always better than Windows. Even as a died-in-the-wool Windows user, I have a lot to thank Apple for. They have driven the user interface and experence forward significantly, others have followed and competition is good.

John

 

[john_morris_uk]

I don't think I said anything which disagrees with your first line.

What I do disagree with is your statement which implies engineering requirements are "esoteric". According to the Royal Academy of Engineering, in 2015 the engineering sector of the UK economy employed 5.4m people and accounted for 24.9% of all UK turnover. Personally I think those numbers are much to large to fit with the OED definition of esoteric; Intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest. 5.4m people is about 9% of the working age population, to me at least that isn't "a small number".

I'm not trying to score Windows/Mac points, but explain why I counter the statement put forward by a few people that Apples are always better than Windows. Even as a died-in-the-wool Windows user, I have a lot to thank Apple for. They have driven the user interface and experence forward significantly, others have followed and competition is good.

John

Good point well made - although I don't recall you mentioning that it was the engineering sector previously. Perhaps I missed it? I also wonder how many of the engineering sector actually need or use the app(s) that you are referring to? I suspect that its not all of them by a long chalk, but its all irrelevant as I'm not into point scoring either. I do find myself bemused by the hardline attitude some people have taken up against Apple. Some of it is just irrational. However I am also bemused by the MS haters and Bill Gates haters, so I'm equally bemused either way.

 

[GHA]

If there's a system that I can use without worrying about all the myriad of problems I have to worry about when using a PC with Windoze,.

What are these myriad of problems?

In my experience with windows these days - you turn it on, it works.

What are all the problems you are getting?