Windlass servicing, what do you service and how often.

[Neeves]

This was raised by someone recently, 'do not forget to service your windlass'. It made me wonder - windlass are. almost. ignored. They do not enjoy much forum comment, which suggest they are reliable? But how often do you service and what does that entail? Do you get down and greasy and check that the seal in the top of the shaft (on a vertical windlass) is still good and not allowing ingress of seawater (and mud) - do you pull the gearbox and motor off (and maybe repaint the motor)

So how often and what do you do?

Jonathan

 

[prv]

Annually, at some point during the winter, I take the above-deck parts off the spindle, clean them, and reassemble with a light coating of grease on the clutch cones etc.

When we got the boat it had obviously not been done for years, possibly never. I didn't even realise that the windlass had a clutch, it was seized completely solid. We had to motor the chain down, which is crap because it takes so long and you drift away from where you meant to drop it.

One year I forgot to service it over the winter, and the following season it was noticeably sticky and temperamental. That led to the occasion (mentioned on the video thread where a ship loses control of its cable) when my mum kept unscrewing the clutch further and further because the chain still wasn't moving - eventually the top plate of the windlass fell off onto the deck, and when the chain eventually did start going she had no way of stopping it.

I've never dismantled the below-deck parts or closely examined the seal.

Pete

 

[Lon nan Gruagach]

Only way to know that the gearbox is ok is to open it. A recent survey suggested that we paint the gearbox and motor, much easier with it on the bench. as I moved it some brown water dribbled out. Difficult to guess how many times the rusted cogs and shattered bearings would manage to work..............

Open it all the way up. clean it and grease it.

 

[Neeves]

Ours is a vertical windlass and they all appear to have the same basic components in the same place - but I cannot actually see how you can do anything, at all, with the gearbox without removing it (and the motor) completely. Even when removed you would still need to access the internals by removing the top (or bottom) plate. I'd have to agree working on it on a bench looks the most sensible way to address it (the gearbox) - and whilst at it - paint the motor (and maybe gearbox).

I find it remarkable there is so little Forum mention of windlass, they sit in a particularly grotty place, have mud and salt water thrown at them all the time, are treated like a poor relation but appear to soldier on forever (or have a I missed something?). Dougal - you imply I have missed something as you say 'A recent survey......'

On this basis, that even if ignored they soldier on, they are a credit to the manufacturers, why cannot everything be totally ignored and last forever!

I did read your post on the video thread PRV but this now puts more clothes on the story.

Jonathan

 

[prv]

I did read your post on the video thread PRV but this now puts more clothes on the story.

Anyone with a modicum of mechanical sympathy would have realised that they already had the clutch completely off, unscrewing it yet further would not help, and they needed to stop winding and investigate why it wasn't releasing. Sadly, for all her many other qualities, mechanical aptitude is not my mother's strong suit

It has to be said that Ariam's windlass installation is not of the best. It's a retrofit by the previous owner, crammed into too little space and with the windlass mounted through a bolted-down locker door that's a bit suspect in terms of strength. I haven't helped matters by probably going one size too large on the anchor, which fouls the jib furler slightly on the way up. It could do with a swivel but I'm not sure there's room for one between the windlass and the shank of the stowed anchor, and there's certainly no room for a chain stopper which ideally I'd have liked.

That said, when the anchor is down and the load is taken with a line to the bow cleats, I trust our ground tackle against almost anything.

Pete

 

[Neeves]

Anyone with a modicum of mechanical sympathy would have realised that they already had the clutch completely off, unscrewing it yet further would not help, and they needed to stop winding and investigate why it wasn't releasing. Sadly, for all her many other qualities, mechanical aptitude is not my mother's strong suit

It has to be said that Ariam's windlass installation is not of the best. It's a retrofit by the previous owner, crammed into too little space and with the windlass mounted through a bolted-down locker door that's a bit suspect in terms of strength. I haven't helped matters by probably going one size too large on the anchor, which fouls the jib furler slightly on the way up. It could do with a swivel but I'm not sure there's room for one between the windlass and the shank of the stowed anchor, and there's certainly no room for a chain stopper which ideally I'd have liked.

That said, when the anchor is down and the load is taken with a line to the bow cleats, I trust our ground tackle against almost anything.

Pete

Don't blame your mother, she was trying to help. it was the skippers fault for providing her a task for which she was not fully conversant (though if she had time to read the instructions I really do not see why someone else did not take over her responsibility . Your anchor is the right size, I can tell - you just need a bigger boat

Do not buy a swivel, it will not help.

Chain stoppers are easy, chain hook on a rope from a bow cleat to chain. Pin through sides of bow roller, through (tandem, tripping) hole) in anchor. You can use the same pin through chain when anchor deployed as stop of last resort.

Jonathan

 

[nigelmercier]

I've recently bought a service kit for my Lofrans Tigres [sic], I haven't used it yet but there are several sites and video clips that are returned by a Google search of "lofrans tigres service". It would be good to get the official document though.

 

[Neeves]

Call me old fashioned - again - but I really find it annoying that the information is only easily available on line, who has a computer or waterproof ipad on their foredeck when they need to service a windlass - modern technology has moved too fast for reality - I know I'm a Luddite but what's wrong with paper and why does it not come with the 'instructions'

Rant over, I'll save the rest for anchors

When I find it - I print it out and put it into a plastic envelope.

Jonathan

awful thread drift

 

[prv]

Your anchor is the right size, I can tell - you just need a bigger boat

Do not buy a swivel, it will not help.

The problem is when bringing the anchor back on board. It quite often arrives facing backwards and needs to be turned round before it can be pulled up over the roller. At the moment this means twisting the chain on deck by hand, lowering it back down a couple of feet while forcing the twist over the roller, hoping that the twist causes the anchor to rotate, then pulling it back over the roller at just the right moment while it's facing the right way. This is all an unnecessary delay and distraction while trying to leave an anchorage.

Chain stoppers are easy, chain hook on a rope from a bow cleat to chain.

Do you mean when the anchor's stowed? Not much good then, the bow cleats are forward of the three inches of exposed chain!

Pete

 

[Neeves]

Do you mean when the anchor's stowed? Not much good then, the bow cleats are forward of the three inches of exposed chain!

Pete

Pete,

I don't need to tell you twice - you need a bigger boat!

Then pin through bow roller and hole in anchor. I met someone in Honfleur over your summer, he had had you problem and had drilled through his shank. Its not a practice I could be too enthusiastic about (and I'll not mention the anchor type).

The only advantage of the swivel, if you can fit it, is that you might be able to rotate the anchor - it will still come up, sometimes, back to front but with the swivel you might be able to turn it round more easily. But do not expect the swivel to allow the anchor to arrive the right way round - its a pretty crude bearing and under tension simply does not rotate. Most untwisting will be done by gravity and the torque in the chain itself - try lifting the anchor and stopping just before it arrives at the bow roller. Some windlass are very fast and they force the anchor to hydro-rotate (like a propellor).

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

I'm not into blowing trumpets but have a look at this

http://www.mysailing.com.au/cruising/how-to-boomerang-you-anchor-right-back-at-you

The first one I made was only about 4" long, I made a series and the dimensions published are the optimum - but shorter still works. Its not original - so I'm making no claims to expertise but its a simpler version of the Oscalati chain connector and someone here, name on tip of my tongue, made one from bent stainless rod with rings welded to the end.

The 'critical' dimensions are the angle, 45 degrees, the holes need to take the appropriate shackle eye and they need as much steel, meat, as your chain.

No moving parts, made from 800 MPa steel fail at 9t when in 8mm size. Does the job.

Jonathan

 

[Yngmar]

This thread evokes vague feelings of guilt focused around the bow. Unfortunately no videos for a Lofrans Cayman - the manual just says to take off the gypsy and rinse the bits with some water, then add grease, but no idea how to even open the rest of it. Anyone done a Cayman?

 

[prv]

Then pin through bow roller and hole in anchor.

It's a Spade, with a hollow fabricated shank. I'm not drilling holes in it.

In any case I'm not too worried about keeping the anchor stowed. Inching up the last bit of chain on the windlass snugs it into the roller nicely and holds it immobile, and I have a short safety strop from the pulpit to the hole in the front of the fluke which would stop it dropping free if the windlass let go. It would become loose and rattly, but it wouldn't escape from the roller.

The desire for a chain stopper was more about being able to make fast the chain without having to faff about with a snubber every time. But since we went from all-chain to chain-and-warp due to trim issues, we only have a rope to make fast now. Still needs a short lanyard to centre it in the roller and avoid chafe (crap deck layout again) but it's easier than the snubber.

She's a Swedish boat, and they generally anchor by the stern over there with the bow tied to a rock, hence the sketchy bow anchor arrangements. Dedicated kedge locker aft though, with even a plinth for a windlass...

Pete

 

[Neeves]

I wouldn't drill a hole in a Spade shank either, nice choice, shows taste

Sounds like recipe to consider G70, except for the additional costs, new chain, new gypsy etc. Oddly, before the popularity of the modern windlass everyone had mixed rodes and it appears to have worked then (and you only had your back to service rather than the windlass)..

Jonathan

 

[jonrarit]

Open it all the way up. clean it and grease it.

+1 for the above advice.

I attempted my Simspson Lawrence last year but the main spindle was seized in the gearbox housing meaning I couldnt get it off the boat. With performance noticeably decreasing this season, it made me try again and with a scissor jack underneath & a bigger hammer I got it to release.

As you can see from the attached picture it wasn't pretty and to be honest wasn't going to be long before it broke away by itself altogether.

View attachment 54954

When opened what came out was just rusty water and I'm astonished it still worked. After sandblasting I replaced all the seals and bearings (all standard sizes), checked the motor & found a replacement mounting cage.

A lick of paint and it's s good as new & ready for the next 30 years.

Having seen the cost of a new one I will however be removing every winter to give it a wash down & re grease just to be sure.

JR

 

[Neeves]

Thanks Jon,

But why do I get the impression, maybe my threads are all very boring, that very few service their windlass?

Jonathan

 

[johnalison]

Thanks Jon,

But why do I get the impression, maybe my threads are all very boring, that very few service their windlass?

Jonathan

Ask the same question for winches, mast and boom sheaves, or almost any other part of the boat and you will probably get the same answer. Many of us are pretty lazy (but I do service my windlass).

 

[Neeves]

Ask the same question for winches, mast and boom sheaves, or almost any other part of the boat and you will probably get the same answer. Many of us are pretty lazy (but I do service my windlass).

One reason for asking is that the windlass is mostly hidden, enjoys an awful environment and, apart from the engine, possibly the most complex mechanical bit of kit on a yacht. Its also inaccessible, out of sight out of mind was a thought. But they do appear to last forever but if they do fail they are very expensive. In contrast a winch is easy (maybe the third most complex mechanical item). I can sit comfortably in the sun, clean and service in turn. No anguish, no great effort required - its quite a satisfying task.

A new, small, decent windlass will cost Stg1,000-1,500?, its pretty critical if you anchor a lot - but to service is not user friendly and service instructions appear paltry, or totally absent.

I service our winches about once every 12 months, I service the engine at 50hrs-100hrs, we antifoul every year (hopefully with the new AF every 2 years (but look as if prop service (AF and anodes) will remain every year) - so I wondered what the Forum's wisdom pool was for a windlass - and have come up, apart from a dedicated few, almost empty handed - which tells its own story?

Jonathan

 

[Lon nan Gruagach]

I find it remarkable there is so little Forum mention of windlass, they sit in a particularly grotty place, have mud and salt water thrown at them all the time, are treated like a poor relation but appear to soldier on forever (or have a I missed something?). Dougal - you imply I have missed something as you say 'A recent survey......'

Ah, I see the ambiguity....

A recent survey of the boat...

 

[NormanS]

One reason for asking is that the windlass is mostly hidden, enjoys an awful environment and, apart from the engine, possibly the most complex mechanical bit of kit on a yacht. Its also inaccessible, out of sight out of mind was a thought. But they do appear to last forever but if they do fail they are very expensive. In contrast a winch is easy (maybe the third most complex mechanical item). I can sit comfortably in the sun, clean and service in turn. No anguish, no great effort required - its quite a satisfying task.

A new, small, decent windlass will cost Stg1,000-1,500?, its pretty critical if you anchor a lot - but to service is not user friendly and service instructions appear paltry, or totally absent.

I service our winches about once every 12 months, I service the engine at 50hrs-100hrs, we antifoul every year (hopefully with the new AF every 2 years (but look as if prop service (AF and anodes) will remain every year) - so I wondered what the Forum's wisdom pool was for a windlass - and have come up, apart from a dedicated few, almost empty handed - which tells its own story?

Jonathan

I had my (Horizontal shaft) windlass off last year, and stripped most of it down. Very easy to take off, with four holding-down bolts, whose nuts are readily accessible from the deck hatch on the chain locker. The stiff cables were the worst thing. The 22 year old windlass was like new inside, even the oil looked clean. The main reason for looking at it was that the sight glass for the oil was opaque, so I couldn't see the oil level. I needn't have bothered. We're anchored for about 16 weeks a year.