Windlass issues

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Neeves

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The advise when buying new chain is to ensure the chain matches the gypsy - simple stuff.

Over the years people use their chain and windlass - do people ever find that the compatibility of chain and windlass seems to decline and for some reason the chain jumps or does not run as smoothly as it did when new. And if this is the case - to what do people attribute this lack of match.

Part of the question is - do people find that they have stretched their chain, or specific links in the chain.

Jonathan
 
Mine jumps occasionally when rattling out, never when heaving in. Never been a problem.

The big old home-made one that I had on my old boat, occasionally needed built up with welding, but it was subjected to much bigger loads than my present Lofrans Tigres.

My chains have always been bog standard (30?), And I'm not aware of any stretching.
 
Chain stretching would be most unusual, but then so is chainwheel wear - but both do happen, or at least that's what people report. Never happened to us - so just wondering.

The chain stretching or the chain wheel wearing must give the same effect - both are expensive to replace so you need to be sure you get it right.

How do you know its, definitely, one and not the other?

Jonathan
 
TQA said:
Well in my case with a Lofrans Tigres windlass it is stretched and or worn chain. What is annoying is the chain is only 15 months old.

View attachment 60697

You can see that the chain no longer fits the gypsy.

What was even more annoying was the run around from the supplying chandler.
Click to expand...

To stretch it implies you have some rather strong wind events. Even if the chain is of poor quality stretching steel takes some effort. But if it worn, so quickly, that implies its pretty soft chain (and possibly prone to stretching).

The gal on the chain should be more abrasion resistant than the chain, so if all the gal has gone - then the chain would wear even more quickly. But even people using chain full times seem to get 3 years from gal - though this might needed to be treated with caution.

Wear would occur 'in' the crowns and on the outside of the length (where it drags over the seabed). You should be able to measure stretch by simply measure the length of a number of links. If you have not end for ended then the original dimensions (including gal) are the bitter end in the locker. If you feel the chain is at fault the unused chain in the locker - could be tested, easy in the UK or Oz, probably less easy where you are :) If you measure its easier to measure 10 or 20 links - and divide (or simply compare with an unused length) than measure links individually.

If you are able to measure it would be interesting to know what you conclude and if you are delving down to look at the bitter end - chain marks would indicate who made it. But marks might be only 1 mark every 3' or a metre (unless its from China and then there might be no marks). No marks does not mean China, it may mean you cannot find any!

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
Chain stretching would be most unusual, but then so is chainwheel wear - but both do happen, or at least that's what people report. Never happened to us - so just wondering.

The chain stretching or the chain wheel wearing must give the same effect - both are expensive to replace so you need to be sure you get it right.

How do you know its, definitely, one and not the other?

Jonathan
Click to expand...

With me it was obvious, once I lifted the chain off you could see the grooves (if that is what you call them) had worn down on the chain wheel, quite badly in parts. I did check with another boat just to remind myself what they should look like in case I got it wrong and it was very clear. Since replacing the chain wheel it has been fine again.
I never had the problem on my old boat and wonder if this was a result of my current boat having stainless steel chain and the previous owner fitting an over sized Delta or perhaps his chain retrieval method was suspect, who knows.
Have now ordered a smaller Kobra 2 anchor and will be interesting to see if the problem reoccurs.
 
I think they might be called pockets.

But I don't think it matters what they are called (as the industry cannot actually fix on a name for the gypsy, chainwheel etc) - as long as we know what you mean!

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
The advise when buying new chain is to ensure the chain matches the gypsy - simple stuff.

Over the years people use their chain and windlass - do people ever find that the compatibility of chain and windlass seems to decline and for some reason the chain jumps or does not run as smoothly as it did when new. And if this is the case - to what do people attribute this lack of match.

Part of the question is - do people find that they have stretched their chain, or specific links in the chain.

Jonathan
Click to expand...

You arent likely to stretch the chain - the load to do so would probably pull the windlass out of the deck. Wear of the cast bronze gypsy due to grit, sand and rubbish is more likely plus polishing the chain surface.
 
drakes drum said:
You arent likely to stretch the chain - the load to do so would probably pull the windlass out of the deck. Wear of the cast bronze gypsy due to grit, sand and rubbish is more likely plus polishing the chain surface.
Click to expand...

You are correct - which is why anyone who wants to protect their windlass and yacht uses some form of chain lock (or snubber) that takes the load off the windlass onto a strong point, Samson post, cleats, whatever.

Chains do stretch.

Jonathan
 
I would think that chain stretch, however uncommon or unlikely, would be much more troublesome than gypsy wear. If the chain is stretched it's not going to fit the gypsy. If the gypsy wears, presumably every "pocket" wears, so the pitch of the gypsy remains the same, just round a bit. Personally, I think you're just looking for something to worry about. :D
 
Good heavens - worry, not a bit of it.

Just curious as to frequency.

One reason to use a long snubber is to minimise the potential of chain stretch - though you would surely know that the rode was under tension - I would think it quite frightening to get to the point where the chain stretches. But stretched chain does get mention and down here, few use snubbers (at all) and those than do tend to use short ones.

So curious.

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
Good heavens - worry, not a bit of it.

Just curious as to frequency.

One reason to use a long snubber is to minimise the potential of chain stretch - though you would surely know that the rode was under tension - I would think it quite frightening to get to the point where the chain stretches. But stretched chain does get mention and down here, few use snubbers (at all) and those than do tend to use short ones.

So curious.

Jonathan
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I always use snubbers for that reason and also security.
 
Lewmar vertical windlass

I've never had a jam while handling an anchor (other than a fat rope/chain splice). However, if the chain is slack, say just lying on deck for some reason, I must apply some tension or it will try to swallow a link sideways and jam. This does not happen lowering because I power down at ~ 7 ft/s.

Is it possible that when allowing the chain to free spool out that there is not enough time for the links to get straight and that once in a while, one enters the gypsy sideways? That would make it jump.

The cure is probably more drop into the locker or slowing the drop a little.
 
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Neeves said:
To stretch it implies you have some rather strong wind events. Even if the chain is of poor quality stretching steel takes some effort. But if it worn, so quickly, that implies its pretty soft chain (and possibly prone to stretching).

The gal on the chain should be more abrasion resistant than the chain, so if all the gal has gone - then the chain would wear even more quickly. But even people using chain full times seem to get 3 years from gal - though this might needed to be treated with caution.

Wear would occur 'in' the crowns and on the outside of the length (where it drags over the seabed). You should be able to measure stretch by simply measure the length of a number of links. If you have not end for ended then the original dimensions (including gal) are the bitter end in the locker. If you feel the chain is at fault the unused chain in the locker - could be tested, easy in the UK or Oz, probably less easy where you are :) If you measure its easier to measure 10 or 20 links - and divide (or simply compare with an unused length) than measure links individually.

If you are able to measure it would be interesting to know what you conclude and if you are delving down to look at the bitter end - chain marks would indicate who made it. But marks might be only 1 mark every 3' or a metre (unless its from China and then there might be no marks). No marks does not mean China, it may mean you cannot find any!

Jonathan
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The worn chain was measured and examined carefully and was found to be 3/8th of an inch longer per foot than new chain. The cause was traced to wear on the links and not stretch. I anchor out abot 360 days a year often in coral sand. Normal chain life is 5 to 7 years in my experience. This Italian chain was showing signs of serious wear at 18 months and much of the galvanizing was gone. I replaced it with US ACCO BBB chain.
 
TQA said:
The worn chain was measured and examined carefully and was found to be 3/8th of an inch longer per foot than new chain. The cause was traced to wear on the links and not stretch. I anchor out abot 360 days a year often in coral sand. Normal chain life is 5 to 7 years in my experience. This Italian chain was showing signs of serious wear at 18 months and much of the galvanizing was gone. I replaced it with US ACCO BBB chain.
Click to expand...

Maggi recently introduced their chain to America, I only know of USA, and it was to an imperial link size. I believe there are, at least, 2 manufacturers of chain in Italy - was this Maggi chain? Maggi only sell a G40 (and G70) quality - G40 should be more abrasion resistant than G30 (and BBB).

Reports of Maggi chain in Europe, or specifically on this forum, question Maggi's galvanising you may be adding an extra dimension (or lack of dimension).

If you changed to BBB - did you need to buy a new gypsy?

You define a new wear mechanism that I have not see reported previously - though the recent reports on windlass jumping, might be wear - as they coincidentally also focus on Maggi chain.

Jonathan



Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
Maggi recently introduced their chain to America, I only know of USA, and it was to an imperial link size. I believe there are, at least, 2 manufacturers of chain in Italy - was this Maggi chain? Maggi only sell a G40 (and G70) quality - G40 should be more abrasion resistant than G30 (and BBB).

Reports of Maggi chain in Europe, or specifically on this forum, question Maggi's galvanising you may be adding an extra dimension (or lack of dimension).

If you changed to BBB - did you need to buy a new gypsy?

You define a new wear mechanism that I have not see reported previously - though the recent reports on windlass jumping, might be wear - as they coincidentally also focus on Maggi chain.

Jonathan



Jonathan
Click to expand...

The chain was 10 mm 28 mm link length and appeared to fit the 3/8th gypsy. The chandlers said it would be fine.

For the first year it was fine but the chain then started to jump on the gypsy under load.. By 18 months it was jumping badly
 
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