Wind Vane with transom hung rudder - possible?

[Redfox226]

Hi

Please be gentle this Christmas as I'm a virgin poster - been lurking a long time! I am struggling to understand the autopiloting possibilities for a boat with transom hung rudder and would value the forum's wise input.

I feel that with our current configuration, an electric autopilot would prove too hungry for our batteries....

 

[jerrytug]

Hi

Please be gentle this Christmas as I'm a virgin poster - been lurking a long time! I am struggling to understand the autopiloting possibilities for a boat with transom hung rudder and would value the forum's wise input.

I feel that with our current configuration, an electric autopilot would prove too hungry for our batteries....

Hello Redfox, a wind vane with a transom hung rudder is a very common arrangement, what boat is it? If you look on the Jester Challenge part of the forum there are a few threads about wind vanes. cheers Jerry

 

[PlankWalker]

If you've got some rake on the transom it makes life easier.
All the servo-pendulum's can be mounted behind a rudder, and I've seen Hydrovane auxiliary rudder gear mounted offset,
If the rudder sticks out a long way behind a vertical transom, a trim tab on the trailing edge of the rudder can be a good, simple, and powerful system.

Plank

 

[DownWest]

If the power consumption is your biggest worry, then an autohelm linked to a trim tab works well, uses a lot less amps and somewhat cheaper than the full wind kit. Also works when motoring.
DW

 

[AHoy2]

I have a Seafeather on my boat, which has a transom hung rudder, most other servo-blade systems are also suitable.
More pics here: http://www.sea-feather.co.uk/

 

[FWB]

Hi


I feel that with our current configuration, an electric autopilot would prove too hungry for our batteries....

Not wishing to ignore your enquiry, but electric autopilots can be quite frugal with battery power. If the sails are balanced and your boat hasn't got too much weather helm, then the pilot is doing very little work. If added to a trim tab as suggested above then it could be even better should more power to the helm be needed.

 

[KellysEye]

>I've seen Hydrovane auxiliary rudder gear mounted offset,

Yes they work well offset.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I have a Seafeather on my boat, which has a transom hung rudder, most other servo-blade systems are also suitable.
More pics here: http://www.sea-feather.co.uk/

I have a Sea Feather too. I don;t have a transom, but the rudder is mounter on the back end of the boat and the wind vane is behind it. The only potential disadvantage of that arrangement is weight/trim ... wind vanes can be very heavy and you'd sticking it a metre out beyond the end of the boat. That's why the chap who fitted mine (previous owner) chose the Sea Feather ... it's fairly light, and with a pointy back end there is no buoyancy to spare.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Not wishing to ignore your enquiry, but electric autopilots can be quite frugal with battery power. If the sails are balanced and your boat hasn't got too much weather helm, then the pilot is doing very little work. If added to a trim tab as suggested above then it could be even better should more power to the helm be needed.

Agree, if you balance the sails there will be no weather helm and therefore little force requirement from the autopilot which means much less power consumption. I have the big Simrad TP30, never had any power issues on a heavy boat, but I always make sure that the helm is light by balancing the sails.

 

[doug748]

These are at the inexpensive end of the spectrum:

http://www.windvane.co.uk/Gallery.aspx

If you root about on the site you will see a number of mounting options.

I might favour a robust tube around the head of the rudder, the thing itself mounts on a simple spigot and can be removed very quickly. You probably know that the mounting bracket only has to support the unit (with a hefty safety margin) there are no (or very small) dynamic steering forces.

 

[Blue Drifter]

This is a picture of a Windpilot Pacific on a Halmatic 30, the wind vane will also work to an autohelm (tiller in this case) which reduces the effort considerably. Works well in practice.

 

[Redfox226]

The only potential disadvantage of that arrangement is weight/trim ... wind vanes can be very heavy and you'd sticking it a metre out beyond the end of the boat.

I must say this is a serious consideration on my boat as she seems to dig her transom in already - may need a rethink of my options!

Happy Christmas and thanks to all who've replied today!

David Red Fox 226

 

[SvenH]

I must say this is a serious consideration on my boat as she seems to dig her transom in already - may need a rethink of my options!

Happy Christmas and thanks to all who've replied today!

David Red Fox 226

Once you fit the bracket for mounting around a transom hung rudder, weight starts to pile up with most systems.

My Y&B weighs about 10 kilos:
http://windvaneselfsteering.com/content/light-weight-selfsteering-mister-vee-yb

 

[macd]

Once you fit the bracket for mounting around a transom hung rudder, weight starts to pile up with most systems.

If mounting a wind vane system well outboard, it's important to distinguish between those with their own dedicated rudder (such as Hydrovane, Windpilot Pacific Plus) and conventional servo-pendulum systems. The former are intrinsically heavy and need very substantial carriers, since they handle all the steering forces. Mounting them to clear an outboard rudder makes them heavier still.

Conventional servo-pendulum systems, as Blue Drifter writes, handle much lighter forces and need be far less substantial. Most of the modern ones you can pick up easily with one hand, although clearly an extended bracket would add somewhat (5kg?) to the overall weight. They're not going to contribute to trim any more than a hefty kedge.

 

[jwilson]

If your Redfox designation means the boat you have is a Red Fox, you will probably have a lifting rudder blade, which makes the easy, cheap(ish) light option of a trim-tab and small autopilot difficult to fit. Again, if the boat is a Red Fox, almost all the various standard manufactured windvane solutions are just too big and heavy, and also very expensive.

Long long ago I tried designing, building and fitting a small windvane to a similar sized centreboard boat with a lifting rudder, it did work OK to windward and on a close reach, but poorly with lots of S-curves in the wake offwind. This was before small electric tillerpilots existed. These days they are the way to go, with a solar panel if needed for keeping battery power up.

 

[Redfox226]

If your Redfox designation means the boat you have is a Red Fox, you will probably have a lifting rudder blade, which makes the easy, cheap(ish) light option of a trim-tab and small autopilot difficult to fit. Again, if the boat is a Red Fox, almost all the various standard manufactured windvane solutions are just too big and heavy, and also very expensive.

Long long ago I tried designing, building and fitting a small windvane to a similar sized centreboard boat with a lifting rudder, it did work OK to windward and on a close reach, but poorly with lots of S-curves in the wake offwind. This was before small electric tillerpilots existed. These days they are the way to go, with a solar panel if needed for keeping battery power up.

Thank you - I'm glad I posted here before deciding which way to go.. you've all been most helpful. Yes the boat is a Red Fox, with a choice of either lifting Rudder or the newer (Hunter) Kick-up jobbie. Both have their problems, but despite attempts to improve weight distribution (including removing the gas bottle!), trim is still a problem.

I'll just have to hope that my 140aH ans 80W Solar cuts the mustard!

David

 

[Champagne Murphy]

I must say this is a serious consideration on my boat as she seems to dig her transom in already - may need a rethink of my options!

Happy Christmas and thanks to all who've replied today!

David Red Fox 226

Fascadale of this Parish has considerable experience in this field. His Invicta 26 is here

http://www.apolloduck.co.uk/advert.phtml?id=384998

 

[SvenH]

Most of the modern ones you can pick up easily with one hand, although clearly an extended bracket would add somewhat (5kg?) to the overall weight. They're not going to contribute to trim any more than a hefty kedge.

With the Y&B you add about 250 grams to build around the transom hung rudder. It only requires an extra tube.

 

[Redfox226]

With the Y&B you add about 250 grams to build around the transom hung rudder. It only requires an extra tube.

An excellent system but unfortunately more than 15% of the value of the boat!

Thank you

David

 

[SvenH]

Self steering is about the value of your sailing, not the value of the boat

(And there is a 15% discount until the end of December, doesn't that solve everything?)