Wind instruments (and other matters) - meh.

doug748

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In the AIS thread someone said that nobody moaned about wind instruments. Well I will. I fitted some years ago and immediately thought what did I do that for? For the small cruising boat they are just about a waste of space, money and effort. Never switch the things on.

Whilst we are on a roll here are a few other things that I never bothered with, on small boats:

Self tailing winches - Silly expensive and overrated.
Integrated instruments, - Little advantage with the chance of network problems thrown in.
Hot water from the engine. I have a kettle.
Fridges (In the UK? someone is winding me up)
On board showers - Pilates in a damp cupboard
Pressurised water - Complex solution looking for a problem.
Bow thrusters (On 30 foot sailers, now? Summut is wrong)
Plus:
People build scaffold towers on the back of their boats to power that little lot - so that's one other thing to cripple the performance of your boat, to break down or worry about.

Before someone calls me a scourge of modernity, let me say I would walk over hot coals for AIS, chart plotter, furling headsail, Windex and Autohelm
:giggle: There are a good few rows in embryo there and not one mention of politics.

What "must have" items do you avoid?

.
 

johnalison

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You have railed against most of the things that make my admittedly geriatric sailing worthwhile, with the exception of the bow-farters.

Self-tailing winches are like having an extra crew member on board. I could live without integrated instruments, and did so for thirty years, but my current ones have worked faultlessly for twenty years and are a great convenience. Again, hot water and a fridge are great comforts to me.
 

Moodysailor

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I always enjoy these threads - it never ceases to amaze me how much sailors (especially the "I've been doing this for years" bunch) like to make the whole process harder and far less enjoyable than it needs to be. And I grew up on gaffers with no halyard winches , before someone tries to explain to me that I don't know what I'm talking about!
But to each their own.
 

Laminar Flow

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Self tailing winches - Silly expensive and overrated. I'm with Johnalison here, they're very useful

Integrated instruments, - Little advantage with the chance of network problems thrown in. True, couldn't care less.

Hot water from the engine. I have a kettle. I like a warm shower and the surplus energy from the engine is free.

Fridges (In the UK? someone is winding me up) We had 45 degr. celsius in the cabin in Holland - nothing goes down as well as an ice cold cider.

On board showers - Pilates in a damp cupboard Moved that to the cockpit - problem solved and warm too

Pressurised water - Complex solution looking for a problem. See shower.
Bow thrusters (On 30 foot sailers, now? Summut is wrong) Ok, not on my boat. In my type it is the forefoot that generates lift to windward; how many 747s have you seen with a hole through their wing? Otherwise, I couldn't care less what folk do.

Plus:
People build scaffold towers on the back of their boats to power that little lot - so that's one other thing to cripple the performance of your boat, to break down or worry about. On my boat we call it a mizzen.

Before someone calls me a scourge of modernity, let me say I would walk over hot coals for AIS, chart plotter, furling headsail, Windex and Autohelm

On AIS, don't have one. We do the active lookout thing.


Chart Plotter: managed somehow without for 50.000 miles, then got one with the new boat and developed an addiction Thankfully, re-discovered the joys of traditional navigation when I was too cheap to buy the digital chart for Denmark.

Furling headsail: Jury's still out: convenient, yes, but makes a lousy foil when reefed.

Over hot coals for a Windex, really? Each to their own.

Autopilot: 'You mind moving over and stop hogging the coals.
 

johnalison

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Self tailing winches - Silly expensive and overrated. I'm with Johnalison here, they're very useful

Integrated instruments, - Little advantage with the chance of network problems thrown in. True, couldn't care less.

Hot water from the engine. I have a kettle. I like a warm shower and the surplus energy from the engine is free.

Fridges (In the UK? someone is winding me up) We had 45 degr. celsius in the cabin in Holland - nothing goes down as well as an ice cold cider.

On board showers - Pilates in a damp cupboard Moved that to the cockpit - problem solved and warm too

Pressurised water - Complex solution looking for a problem. See shower.
Bow thrusters (On 30 foot sailers, now? Summut is wrong) Ok, not on my boat. In my type it is the forefoot that generates lift to windward; how many 747s have you seen with a hole through their wing? Otherwise, I couldn't care less what folk do.

Plus:
People build scaffold towers on the back of their boats to power that little lot - so that's one other thing to cripple the performance of your boat, to break down or worry about. On my boat we call it a mizzen.

Before someone calls me a scourge of modernity, let me say I would walk over hot coals for AIS, chart plotter, furling headsail, Windex and Autohelm

On AIS, don't have one. We do the active lookout thing.


Chart Plotter: managed somehow without for 50.000 miles, then got one with the new boat and developed an addiction Thankfully, re-discovered the joys of traditional navigation when I was too cheap to buy the digital chart for Denmark.

Furling headsail: Jury's still out: convenient, yes, but makes a lousy foil when reefed.

Over hot coals for a Windex, really? Each to their own.

Autopilot: 'You mind moving over and stop hogging the coals.
I will differ from you on a few points. A furling jib is an enormous advantage to cruising sailors, and even some racers. I seem to remember that Angus Primrose did very well in the Transat with an early furling jib before they were universal. A laminate jib with a foam insert will go to windward pretty decently when reefed, and the boat can be sailed with a full jib at times when others will have changed down 'just in case'.

My instruments allow easy extraction of information such as True Wind and VMG, as well as saving my neck from the strain of viewing the masthead. A hot shower can save a lot of euros by avoiding the need for marina showers. My wife made me very unpopular on one occasion. We were returning from Blankenberg in company with a couple who still had their Sadler 32 without facilities and my wife was able to tell them on the radio that I was enjoying a hot shower when we were somewhere off Longsand Head. Hot water is good for the morale, too.
 

oldmanofthehills

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I love my furling genoa with foam luff. It means I have a sturdy 150% foresail that can be managed from the cockpit of a small bouncy boat and readily brought down to a more normal size. Ok wont go quite as well to windward but the Navigator doesnt want us to have a racer.

Windgauge amuses the navigator when windy as she is obsessed with weather, but the noise disturbs her sleep.

We have integrated radio/gps/ais receiver. Nice when crossing shipping lanes in thick fog when a lookout wont see the big stuff from a safe distance.

We have integrated chart plotter and depth. I would prefer separate but have another depth gauge anyway.

We dont carry enough water (90L) for prolonged showers whether hot or cold. So its marina or similar every 3 days or just get smelly if nothing ashore -but then often no point in going where out smellyness might offend.

I dont have self tailing winches but dont much see how it would much benefit me. I have one hand for handle and one for the tail.

I love my tiller pilot. I would prefer a wheel pilot but hard to fit on our craft. I can now go to the heads without the craft gybing or tacking of its own volition with the tied helm. I can also read charts easily when on watch and write the log with hand available for these and other task. I have been known to read books while maintaining lookout on the 12 to 36 hour runs.

I threw away the fridge in our camper as a coolbox quite sufficient to keep food fresh for 3 days. The boat has a fridge but it kills the battery so all instruments die and then one has to motor just to get it charged. I threw out the fridge from our old Westerly as redundant. Maybe if I sailed in the med or similar. My issue is trying to get warm when charcoal burner or eperspacker wont go.

I converted my pressurised water sdystem to a tap controlled pump. Much simpler. We have pressurised water system for our rainwater harvesting system at home as otherwise it would need even more control wires and switches going from far garden to the loft, and it was a so and so to set up. We want hysteresis not hysterical pumping.
 

Laminar Flow

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I will differ from you on a few points. A furling jib is an enormous advantage to cruising sailors, and even some racers. I seem to remember that Angus Primrose did very well in the Transat with an early furling jib before they were universal. A laminate jib with a foam insert will go to windward pretty decently when reefed, and the boat can be sailed with a full jib at times when others will have changed down 'just in case'.

My instruments allow easy extraction of information such as True Wind and VMG, as well as saving my neck from the strain of viewing the masthead. A hot shower can save a lot of euros by avoiding the need for marina showers. My wife made me very unpopular on one occasion. We were returning from Blankenberg in company with a couple who still had their Sadler 32 without facilities and my wife was able to tell them on the radio that I was enjoying a hot shower when we were somewhere off Longsand Head. Hot water is good for the morale, too.
As cruising sailor I do have a furler and yes, with a padded luff. At the same time it is quite easy to forget how much we sacrifice for this convenience.
When crossing the Pacific a while back, we lost the twin forestays and with it the furler and the foam padded headsail from a rather expensive local loft. After rigging an emergency stay we set a forty year old, hank-on Ratsey sail we carried as a spare. By that time I had had some 7000 miles experience with this particular sail and furler, including some 1500 to windward. I was absolutely and continuously blown away by the comparative power of this old sail.

For VMG and true wind I have a calculator, you know, the type your kids used at school. After a while one gets pretty good at making a reasonably accurate educated guess. Sometimes the dumming-down effect that modern electronic conveniences seem to have on me makes me feel rather uncomfortable. The initial stress, or perhaps better: discomfort, that reverting back to traditional navigation methods caused me was a bit of a wake-up call, this in spite of a few decades experience in the business.

I'm definitely with you on the shower. Last pre-covid season, I installed a shower in the cockpit. It takes the yoga-in-a-phone -booth out of the equation and keeps the moisture out of the boat. Warm too, from the engine.
 
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Praxinoscope

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After almost 50 years of mucking about in boats I have finally gone down the furling genoa route, agreed not quite as efficient as individual foresails, but the convenience is just great, no more bouncing up and down at the bows trying to change sails or just dropping them at the end of a sail.
The wind instruments reduce my aching neck from looking up at the hawk for hours on end.
As I still enjoy single handed the autohelm is well worth its weight in gold.
Never had a fridge on board, but have built cool boxes in.
For a shower I have a camping type solar heated shower (a polythene bag filled with water and left in the sun to heat up, of course only works in warm weather)
Like oldmanofthehills, I don't have self tailing winches, I accept they do have advantages at times, but not sufficient to warrant at the extra cost involved.
I have an AIS receiver wired into the chartplotter, it came with the boat, but the Irish Sea is so quiet compared to the South or East coasts, I only ever see an AIS signal about once every two days.
 

lustyd

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I fitted some years ago and immediately thought what did I do that for?
I realised before I got them for my little boat but the new one came with them and it's quite entertaining to see the numbers sometimes. I have now also fitted permanent wifi on board, as well as remote monitoring for power and other completely useless gubbins. I have hobbies other than sailing, and electric gubbins is one of them so I make no excuses for my pointless gadgets
 

PetiteFleur

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I have not got many instruments, depth, gps on a small handheld, tablet with navionics. Log but always gets clogged up, inside I have navtex, ais receive only. No windspeed, just windex. But I do have furling genoa, stackpack and selftailers, bought v cheap from auction house, had to service as full of sand which make setting the genoa v easy, especially for swmbo. Fridge essential.
 

johnalison

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I love my furling genoa with foam luff. It means I have a sturdy 150% foresail that can be managed from the cockpit of a small bouncy boat and readily brought down to a more normal size. Ok wont go quite as well to windward but the Navigator doesnt want us to have a racer.

Windgauge amuses the navigator when windy as she is obsessed with weather, but the noise disturbs her sleep.

We have integrated radio/gps/ais receiver. Nice when crossing shipping lanes in thick fog when a lookout wont see the big stuff from a safe distance.

We have integrated chart plotter and depth. I would prefer separate but have another depth gauge anyway.

We dont carry enough water (90L) for prolonged showers whether hot or cold. So its marina or similar every 3 days or just get smelly if nothing ashore -but then often no point in going where out smellyness might offend.

I dont have self tailing winches but dont much see how it would much benefit me. I have one hand for handle and one for the tail.

I love my tiller pilot. I would prefer a wheel pilot but hard to fit on our craft. I can now go to the heads without the craft gybing or tacking of its own volition with the tied helm. I can also read charts easily when on watch and write the log with hand available for these and other task. I have been known to read books while maintaining lookout on the 12 to 36 hour runs.

I threw away the fridge in our camper as a coolbox quite sufficient to keep food fresh for 3 days. The boat has a fridge but it kills the battery so all instruments die and then one has to motor just to get it charged. I threw out the fridge from our old Westerly as redundant. Maybe if I sailed in the med or similar. My issue is trying to get warm when charcoal burner or eperspacker wont go.

I converted my pressurised water sdystem to a tap controlled pump. Much simpler. We have pressurised water system for our rainwater harvesting system at home as otherwise it would need even more control wires and switches going from far garden to the loft, and it was a so and so to set up. We want hysteresis not hysterical pumping.
I am glad that you are happy with your winches, which are what I cruised with for 17 years, including a couple with bottom-action. I think that if you used STs you would notice the difference in practicality immediately, but whether anyone wants to pay for them is their choice.
 

johnalison

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As cruising sailor I do have a furler and yes, with a padded luff. At the same time it is quite easy to forget how much we sacrifice for this convenience.
When crossing the Pacific a while back, we lost the twin forestays and with it the furler and the foam padded headsail from a rather expensive local loft. After rigging an emergency stay we set a forty year old, hank-on Ratsey sail we carried as a spare. By that time I had had some 7000 miles experience with this particular sail and furler, including some 1500 to windward. I was absolutely and continuously blown away by the comparative power of this old sail.

For VMG and true wind I have a calculator, you know, the type your kids used at school. After a while one gets pretty good at making a reasonably accurate educated guess. Sometimes the dumming-down effect that modern electronic conveniences seem to have on me makes me feel rather uncomfortable. The initial stress, or perhaps better: discomfort, that reverting back to traditional navigation methods caused me was a bit of a wake-up call, this in spite of a few decades experience in the business.

I'm definitely with you on the shower. Last pre-covid season, I installed a shower in the cockpit. It takes the yoga-in-a-phone -booth out of the equation and keeps the moisture out of the boat. Warm too, from the engine.
I’m sure that if I sat down with a calculator I could work out the true wind, but as it involves a cosine function I don’t think I could do it in my head. I have two main uses for true wind. Firstly, to assess how much the wind is rising when running. I can more of less do this by simply arithmetic, but a combination of variable boats speed over the waves and a bit of wishful thinking tends to work against accuracy. Secondly, I use it when motor-sailing both the set the course close-hauled and to judge when the wind has reached the point where I can start sailing again, both hard to judge by senses.
 
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