Miker
Well-Known Member
I'm thinking of getting a pukka wind direction indicator since the wind arrow at the top of my mast blew off. Is it worth spending a hundred or so pounds more and getting one that connects via NMEA to my Navico autopilot?
Wind direction indicator
- Thread starter Miker
- Start date
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
They are all expensive and they all apart from the nasa one have nmea ouput.
colin_jones
Well-Known Member
The autopilot option is very personal ... but for a masthead unit have a look at the Vetus transducer with no moving parts. It will connect to a variety of NMEA compliant displays. It is no cheaper than the KVH used by most of the top end wind instruments, but there are no constantly moving bearings to need periodic replacement at £70 a time.
The unit is in the Vetus catalogue and will be at LIBS. I can vouch that it is directionally excellent but calibration of actual wind speed was beyond my last year's opportunity. This does not much matter as I more interested in relative speed ie increase or decrease.
The unit is in the Vetus catalogue and will be at LIBS. I can vouch that it is directionally excellent but calibration of actual wind speed was beyond my last year's opportunity. This does not much matter as I more interested in relative speed ie increase or decrease.
Miker
Well-Known Member
Re: Have to calibrate?
Thanks but had a look at the WEB and the VETUS looks a bit expensive.
I didn't realise these things have to be calibrated. Who does one go about it? I find it hard enough to calibrate a log.
And how robust are the thingies at the top of the mast as £70 seems a bit expensive to fork out each time half a gale blows, as is quite often in the NW?
Thanks but had a look at the WEB and the VETUS looks a bit expensive.
I didn't realise these things have to be calibrated. Who does one go about it? I find it hard enough to calibrate a log.
And how robust are the thingies at the top of the mast as £70 seems a bit expensive to fork out each time half a gale blows, as is quite often in the NW?
colin_jones
Well-Known Member
Re: Have to calibrate?
The NASA apart, all wind speed and direction indicator masthead units are expensive... £400 ++ is the norm, so the Vetuus is about the same as its competitors. They are a reasonably robust unit when you consider what they are expected to do, but the windmill cups are still whizzing around even when the boat is unoccupied. That is a lot of hours for small ball bearings etc to work. We, for instance, take our mast unit off for the winter ashore .. a pain, but for £70. The stupid part is that replacement bearings (if you could find a source) cost less than a tenner and I changed mine last year in five minutes with just pliers and a small screwdriver, whilst a cruiser at Camaret forked out £100 to an engineer. That is not bragging.. I was lucky enough to have a spare set on the boat.
Calibration is done on the display head. It is not, in itself, a dificult operation. The problem is getting a datum, point ie where do you set it at the start. How fast is the wind blowing at that moment. The advice is to wait for a totally windless day and then motor at - say - 5 knots and calibrate from there..... which supposes that your log is accurate... and so on.
The NASA apart, all wind speed and direction indicator masthead units are expensive... £400 ++ is the norm, so the Vetuus is about the same as its competitors. They are a reasonably robust unit when you consider what they are expected to do, but the windmill cups are still whizzing around even when the boat is unoccupied. That is a lot of hours for small ball bearings etc to work. We, for instance, take our mast unit off for the winter ashore .. a pain, but for £70. The stupid part is that replacement bearings (if you could find a source) cost less than a tenner and I changed mine last year in five minutes with just pliers and a small screwdriver, whilst a cruiser at Camaret forked out £100 to an engineer. That is not bragging.. I was lucky enough to have a spare set on the boat.
Calibration is done on the display head. It is not, in itself, a dificult operation. The problem is getting a datum, point ie where do you set it at the start. How fast is the wind blowing at that moment. The advice is to wait for a totally windless day and then motor at - say - 5 knots and calibrate from there..... which supposes that your log is accurate... and so on.
claymore
Well-Known Member
Its only money
And you have loads
get the one that is compatible with whatever instruments you already have - it just reduces the incompatibilty factor by one and they all match and its neat and tidy and it must impress potential buyers if it isn't all piecemeal -not that you are planning to sell - but anyway thats my two bobswarth
Best Wishes for Christmas.
Are you out of the water?
regards
Claymore
And you have loads
get the one that is compatible with whatever instruments you already have - it just reduces the incompatibilty factor by one and they all match and its neat and tidy and it must impress potential buyers if it isn't all piecemeal -not that you are planning to sell - but anyway thats my two bobswarth
Best Wishes for Christmas.
Are you out of the water?
regards
Claymore
extravert
Well-Known Member
Re: Have to calibrate?
I don't know why Nasa don't produce an interface box that could be connected to their transducer that would give out NMEA wind information. After all, they have done the hard bit, making the transducer. Converting their current output signal to NMEA would be very easy, it's only a data source, not a sink.
If they don't do it soon, I might. Fed up with paying ridiculous prices for wind kit that self destructs in a year.
I don't know why Nasa don't produce an interface box that could be connected to their transducer that would give out NMEA wind information. After all, they have done the hard bit, making the transducer. Converting their current output signal to NMEA would be very easy, it's only a data source, not a sink.
If they don't do it soon, I might. Fed up with paying ridiculous prices for wind kit that self destructs in a year.
Miker
Well-Known Member
Re: Its only money
John
I might have known that you would make some cutting remark. Me with loads of money? I wish that were true! But I was told by a fellow yottie that "shrouds do not have pockets" and "money left is money lost".
Yes, I am out of the water and on chocks at the YC.
The problem is that every winter I come up with stacks of essential goodies to buy that I have managed reasonably well without in previous years. This year it is a wind indicator and, perhaps, a Yeoman. And should I replace my 121 Epirb with a 406?
Best wishes for Christmas to you as well. I have got in some bottles of New World plonk and single malts to fortify me through the festive season.
Regards
Mike
John
I might have known that you would make some cutting remark. Me with loads of money? I wish that were true! But I was told by a fellow yottie that "shrouds do not have pockets" and "money left is money lost".
Yes, I am out of the water and on chocks at the YC.
The problem is that every winter I come up with stacks of essential goodies to buy that I have managed reasonably well without in previous years. This year it is a wind indicator and, perhaps, a Yeoman. And should I replace my 121 Epirb with a 406?
Best wishes for Christmas to you as well. I have got in some bottles of New World plonk and single malts to fortify me through the festive season.
Regards
Mike
boatmike
Well-Known Member
I am quite interested in this one chaps. I have Cetrek instruments on by boat. The service from Cetrek (whats left of them) is pretty awful but the instruments otherwise hold up well and do the job apart from the damn things won't interface with other kit at all. The windvane has taken a clout and gone terminal. I would desperately like to know I could buy a cheaper masthead transducer and /or get a solid state one. Are we all sure they output the same NMEA signals?
When you guys talk about a Vetus unit do you mean VDO? Or have I got that wrong 'cause I can't find wind instruments on Vetus website. Does anybody really know if the solid state one you are on about will interface with Cetrek instruments? Also if everyone else uses KVH (Who?) transducers why don't they all look the same and why is there such a difference in price?
When you guys talk about a Vetus unit do you mean VDO? Or have I got that wrong 'cause I can't find wind instruments on Vetus website. Does anybody really know if the solid state one you are on about will interface with Cetrek instruments? Also if everyone else uses KVH (Who?) transducers why don't they all look the same and why is there such a difference in price?
extravert
Well-Known Member
Cetrek market a solid state wind sensor. It's part number 930 319 and can be seen here
http://www.cetrek.co.uk/NewsSet.html
I've had no problems interfacing anything to Cetrek's C-Net 2000 display heads. Maybe your Cetrek stuff is older. There is no certainty at all though that all NMEA instruments and displays are compatible. My Cetrek display manuals list the NMEA sentences that it understands. These match with the sentences listed for the transducer.
KVH were the suppliers of the Cetrek mechanical wind sensors, don't know if they still are. KVH used to make and market their own marine instruments but they were stupendously expensive. I can't see any evidence that they still do make them.
I replaced my old KVH instruments with Cetrek because KVH were too expensive to maintain. The new wind sensor that came from Cetrek was identical to the old failed one from KVH. Saved drilling new holes.
Are Cetrek in difficulty? They don't seem to advertise any more and none of the main chandlers and suplliers seems to stock their stuff. It would be a shame if they give up on their marine range because I think the C-Net 2000 stuff is very versatile and only recently have the likes of Raymarine caught up with their ST290 range.
http://www.cetrek.co.uk/NewsSet.html
I've had no problems interfacing anything to Cetrek's C-Net 2000 display heads. Maybe your Cetrek stuff is older. There is no certainty at all though that all NMEA instruments and displays are compatible. My Cetrek display manuals list the NMEA sentences that it understands. These match with the sentences listed for the transducer.
KVH were the suppliers of the Cetrek mechanical wind sensors, don't know if they still are. KVH used to make and market their own marine instruments but they were stupendously expensive. I can't see any evidence that they still do make them.
I replaced my old KVH instruments with Cetrek because KVH were too expensive to maintain. The new wind sensor that came from Cetrek was identical to the old failed one from KVH. Saved drilling new holes.
Are Cetrek in difficulty? They don't seem to advertise any more and none of the main chandlers and suplliers seems to stock their stuff. It would be a shame if they give up on their marine range because I think the C-Net 2000 stuff is very versatile and only recently have the likes of Raymarine caught up with their ST290 range.
boatmike
Well-Known Member
Yes indeed Cetrek are now no longer in Poole and have been bought by Teleflex Morse. You can't talk to them, if you try they refer you to "the service centre" which is a seperate company. They in turn won't deal direct and then send you to a dealer who knows nothing and talks to "the service centre" on your behalf. I sent them the windvane to repair and they say they can't and want to charge me £25 for looking. Compared to Raytheon service this is crap. Yes I did hear that they have a solid state transducer but it's new and costs £510ex VAT. As I can buy a complete ST60 for £425 (ST40 is only £215) I am seriously asking how long cheapo NASA or ST40 will last run it into the ground and throw it away rather than buy so called "quality" gear. On the other hand solid state sounds good. And yes you are right my Cetrek stuff is pre the current model which is possibly part of the problem......
colin_jones
Well-Known Member
Cetrek are now (in part) handled by the repair centre set up by one of their ex employees
Cetrek - The Service Centre - Leanne Business Centre - Sandford Lane - Wareham - Dorset - BH20 4DY 01929 554503. There is a website at www. cetrek.com.
As far as I know, this company is only handling autopilots and chart plotters, but most of the staff are ex Cetrek, since Teleflex Morse moved the whole outfit to Essex, and they will certainly know where to locate anything else.
I have C-Net 2000 instruments on the boat, inc one KVH wind sender and the Vetus, which we carried as an experiment last season. There are no problems about getting NMEA sensibility from either and the displays' menus make setting up very easy. As mentioned earlier, the two were in lock step about wind direction relative to boat's head, but showed a bit of difference re wind strength, because we did not have a real go at calibrating the Vetus. They did,however, show an equivalent rise and fall in wind speed, so both were useful.
KVH are still in business. The best place to source their products is probably Burmark on 01428 724777, or see them at LIBS
Cetrek - The Service Centre - Leanne Business Centre - Sandford Lane - Wareham - Dorset - BH20 4DY 01929 554503. There is a website at www. cetrek.com.
As far as I know, this company is only handling autopilots and chart plotters, but most of the staff are ex Cetrek, since Teleflex Morse moved the whole outfit to Essex, and they will certainly know where to locate anything else.
I have C-Net 2000 instruments on the boat, inc one KVH wind sender and the Vetus, which we carried as an experiment last season. There are no problems about getting NMEA sensibility from either and the displays' menus make setting up very easy. As mentioned earlier, the two were in lock step about wind direction relative to boat's head, but showed a bit of difference re wind strength, because we did not have a real go at calibrating the Vetus. They did,however, show an equivalent rise and fall in wind speed, so both were useful.
KVH are still in business. The best place to source their products is probably Burmark on 01428 724777, or see them at LIBS
Miker
Well-Known Member
Re: VETUS and NMEA
I found the VETUS thingy on Yahoo under Vetus. co.uk and looking under "Weather instruments" The price is given as £442.98. There appear to be two dashboard instruments, one for wind strength and the other for wind direction. I have been looking at the new Plastimo 3150 for £350 which has all the info on one instrument, and which seems much better in that respect although it has a conventional moveable masthead wind gauge.
The Plastimo outputs MWV and VPW messages under NMEA 0183. What I am wondering now is whether there are different versions of NMEA0183 and if that is significant when interfacing with a Navico tillerpilot.
I found the VETUS thingy on Yahoo under Vetus. co.uk and looking under "Weather instruments" The price is given as £442.98. There appear to be two dashboard instruments, one for wind strength and the other for wind direction. I have been looking at the new Plastimo 3150 for £350 which has all the info on one instrument, and which seems much better in that respect although it has a conventional moveable masthead wind gauge.
The Plastimo outputs MWV and VPW messages under NMEA 0183. What I am wondering now is whether there are different versions of NMEA0183 and if that is significant when interfacing with a Navico tillerpilot.
boatmike
Well-Known Member
Re: VETUS and NMEA
Hey thanks! I looked at the Vetus site before and could not see it. I reckon £442 for a solid state unit with two seperate analog displays is bloody good value! The Cetrek transducer alone is over £500 for a solid state one! In practice I concur with others that say all the whirly cups and rotating vanes have a limited life. If bearings don't wear out first seagulls perch on the buggers and bust it for you which is what happened to mine (don't laugh you rotten lot!) If this thing really works the dual analog display is excellent. Better I would say than one combined display and digital units like the Plastimo are difficult to read. OK for the toy cupboard but not in anger in blue water conditions in my view.... Of course you cant interface with a fluxgate to read true wind but I never found this to be of real value anyway. Has anyone any experience with the unit and can remark on its robustness? I think I want one already.....
Hey thanks! I looked at the Vetus site before and could not see it. I reckon £442 for a solid state unit with two seperate analog displays is bloody good value! The Cetrek transducer alone is over £500 for a solid state one! In practice I concur with others that say all the whirly cups and rotating vanes have a limited life. If bearings don't wear out first seagulls perch on the buggers and bust it for you which is what happened to mine (don't laugh you rotten lot!) If this thing really works the dual analog display is excellent. Better I would say than one combined display and digital units like the Plastimo are difficult to read. OK for the toy cupboard but not in anger in blue water conditions in my view.... Of course you cant interface with a fluxgate to read true wind but I never found this to be of real value anyway. Has anyone any experience with the unit and can remark on its robustness? I think I want one already.....
boatmike
Well-Known Member
Thanks for all that Colin. I have not been using this site long but its excellent to pool information like this isn't it! I guess you have answered my question re the transducer but the difference in price of the trannie alone relative to the complete kit including sensor heads is so marginal that I am inclined to bin the old Cetrek I think. I am not clear if you have the whole caboose or have just the transducer interfaced with your Cetrek 2000.
As far as the Cetrek organisation is concerned you have it right apart from the fact that I have found them about as much use as a chocolate teapot for information and not helpful in terms of service. Sad really as it used to be good kit.... I certainly won't buy any more....
As far as the Cetrek organisation is concerned you have it right apart from the fact that I have found them about as much use as a chocolate teapot for information and not helpful in terms of service. Sad really as it used to be good kit.... I certainly won't buy any more....
Miker
Well-Known Member
Re: VETUS and NMEA
You might have convinced me that I should fork out another £90 or so. (I hope that my wife does not read this.) I, too, would be interested in user experiences. I'd need to establish that it can communicate with my TP300 tillerpilot, so I will have to start asking questions of the supplier by email. Unfortunately I can't get to the LIBS.
You might have convinced me that I should fork out another £90 or so. (I hope that my wife does not read this.) I, too, would be interested in user experiences. I'd need to establish that it can communicate with my TP300 tillerpilot, so I will have to start asking questions of the supplier by email. Unfortunately I can't get to the LIBS.
colin_jones
Well-Known Member
Re: VETUS and NMEA
I have the whole Cetrek shooting match. The gear is still superbe, but I agree that they have enormous problems of distribution and support. The loss of trade and confidence is entirely of their own making. New owners T-M are less interested in 'electronics' than in steering and pilots. That is a shame because even such things as the Cetrek AP730 are not promoted, yet it is a marvellous pilot.
There is a solution. If you call Raymarine and insist on speaking to somebody in 'support' who is an autopilt expert, you might well get the guy who designed the later Cetreks and who has transferred and designed the newer Raymarine Autopilots. If you have problems, PM me and I'll dig out his name, which does not come easily to my early morning brain.
Info on the Vetus is less easy to get from them as it is a bought in product. I need to find out some more about what is patently a very interesting idea and will send yopu anything I get. Unless you are a Winter sailer, there is still time. All I can say for the mo is that it works and is very tough.
I have the whole Cetrek shooting match. The gear is still superbe, but I agree that they have enormous problems of distribution and support. The loss of trade and confidence is entirely of their own making. New owners T-M are less interested in 'electronics' than in steering and pilots. That is a shame because even such things as the Cetrek AP730 are not promoted, yet it is a marvellous pilot.
There is a solution. If you call Raymarine and insist on speaking to somebody in 'support' who is an autopilt expert, you might well get the guy who designed the later Cetreks and who has transferred and designed the newer Raymarine Autopilots. If you have problems, PM me and I'll dig out his name, which does not come easily to my early morning brain.
Info on the Vetus is less easy to get from them as it is a bought in product. I need to find out some more about what is patently a very interesting idea and will send yopu anything I get. Unless you are a Winter sailer, there is still time. All I can say for the mo is that it works and is very tough.
colin_jones
Well-Known Member
Re: VETUS and NMEA
I have the whole Cetrek shooting match. The gear is still superbe, but I agree that they have enormous problems of distribution and support. The loss of trade and confidence is entirely of their own making. New owners T-M are less interested in 'electronics' than in steering and pilots. That is a shame because even such things as the Cetrek AP730 are not promoted, yet it is a marvellous pilot.
There is a solution. If you call Raymarine and insist on speaking to somebody in 'support' who is an autopilt expert, you might well get the guy who designed the later Cetreks and who has transferred and designed the newer Raymarine Autopilots. If you have problems, PM me and I'll dig out his name, which does not come easily to my early morning brain.
Info on the Vetus is less easy to get from them as it is a bought in product. I need to find out some more about what is patently a very interesting idea and will send yopu anything I get. Unless you are a Winter sailer, there is still time. All I can say for the mo is that it works and is very tough.
I have the whole Cetrek shooting match. The gear is still superbe, but I agree that they have enormous problems of distribution and support. The loss of trade and confidence is entirely of their own making. New owners T-M are less interested in 'electronics' than in steering and pilots. That is a shame because even such things as the Cetrek AP730 are not promoted, yet it is a marvellous pilot.
There is a solution. If you call Raymarine and insist on speaking to somebody in 'support' who is an autopilt expert, you might well get the guy who designed the later Cetreks and who has transferred and designed the newer Raymarine Autopilots. If you have problems, PM me and I'll dig out his name, which does not come easily to my early morning brain.
Info on the Vetus is less easy to get from them as it is a bought in product. I need to find out some more about what is patently a very interesting idea and will send yopu anything I get. Unless you are a Winter sailer, there is still time. All I can say for the mo is that it works and is very tough.
boatmike
Well-Known Member
One last question then. I note that the Vetus website says you should mount the solid state transducer at least 1 metre away from a VHF antenna. Most of us have VHF antennas on the masthead and 1 metre is a long way.... Did you worry about this? Sounds a bit OTT but have you experienced any interference?
Miker
Well-Known Member
If the "one metre apart" is correct, it is back to plan A and the Plastimo for me.