Will the marine world follow the 4x4 trend?

Re: \"There is no such thing as \"society\"?

Interesting debate, when does bad taste become bad manners? What proportion of society has to object to something before it becomes socially unacceptable?

Personally I believe that anybody who drives a car primarily for the transportation of 1-5 people on normal roads (excluding mountains where snow is an issue), and whose said car has a fuel consumption of under 30mpg is bordering on anti-social behaviour.

I know many older cars can't achieve this and maybe the government should consider grants to encourage people to buy safer and more fuel efficient cars. I also am aware that some big 4x4s have been modified to use LPG thus greatly reducing their carbon emissions.

And the truth be told, I do like the new Discovery, I think it is a great piece of engineering and design. I also love the old Defender, but have no justification for having one, maybe I should buy a forest somewhere?
 
Re: \"There is no such thing as \"society\"?

Robin

Ouch!

touch a nerve did I? chill out its POETS day and this thread is only a laugh
 
Re: \"There is no such thing as \"society\"?

[ QUOTE ]
It is becoming a breach of good manners to own and drive a 4x4.

[/ QUOTE ] Forgive me. I hadn't realised we had an arbiter of etiquette on the forum.
I hadn't been able to place your stance on society until you came out with that.
I now have a clear idea of your position.


Shoot me if I get as narrow-minded and pompous.
 
Re: \"There is no such thing as \"society\"?

Oh, now a new cars pulled up, drawfs mine, Bentley Continental. Chr**t its massive, & black, wots the point of them then ?

Off to the pub, anyone fancy a pint ?
 
Re: \"There is no such thing as \"society\"?

Would you mind taking Lakesailor along with you? I think he needs one! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Re: \"There is no such thing as \"society\"?

[ QUOTE ]
Robin

Ouch!

touch a nerve did I? chill out its POETS day and this thread is only a laugh


[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you think I need to chill out, all I did was give my opinion of the USA situation just as you did yours because I didn't see the trend you claimed.

As for my comment about not telling me what car I should/shouldn't buy, that is what I think chilled out or heated, I believe in freedom of speech, choice and whatever. I am coming to the opinion however that in the UK such freedoms are being rapidly eroded either by numpty gnu labour or others who would impose their views on all.

And yes it IS POETS day but the forecast is crap and I'm NOT in a good mood. So there. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: \"There is no such thing as \"society\"?

Dear me, there's a lot of sanctimonious humbug here, as well as a lot of sweeping and inaccurate generalisations.

Shall we introduce a few facts to the debate?

All vehicles produce carbon emissions, some more than others, but the greatest proportion of emissions produced by a vehicle with a typical 10 year lifespan will be produced whilst it is being manufactured and transported to the sale point. The difference in emissions between a 4x4 doing 30mpg while it's being operated(eg a Land Rover Discovery) and a 2 wheel drive vehicle is pretty piffling in the general scheme of things (in fact passenger car emissions are pretty minimal in the scheme of things - the Drax power station alone pumps out as much carbon per year as 75% of the UK transport fleet). In addition, the fact that 4x4's are engineered to survive in off-road conditions means they often last longer than conventional vehicles, thereby reducing the volume of emissions at the production stage because they need to be replaced less frequently (75% of all land rovers ever produced are still in use).

As for "taking up more room" the type of 4x4's sold in Europe don't take up significantly more roadspace than conventional cars, if they do at all - go check the manufacturers figures if you don't believe me. They are taller than conventional saloons (but not MPVs) but I am not aware that we are running out of sky, so am curious to know why this is considered a problem.

Global warming will no doubt be an increasing problem and we should all do our bit to reduce our carbon emissions. But most people seem to stop at pointing a sanctimonious finger at 4x4 owners, which is both hypocritical and missing the point. If you are serious about carbon emissions, don't replace your car unless it's irrepairable, switch off all appliances that aren't needed (including those on standby), reduce your "food miles" as much as possible, don't buy so many products full stop and consider whether your journey is absolutely necessary and whether there is a more carbon-friendly means of doing it.

When you've done all that, you can begin to pass judgement on others. But a man who travels 30,000 miles a year in his car is probably not in a position to question anyone's "green" credentials.

Here endeth today's sermon. Go ye in peace, but not by car.
 
Re: \"There is no such thing as \"society\"?

Just so.

Smoking seems to have reached the tipping point, so to speak, and become socially unacceptable, within the past 20 years or so.
 
Re: \"There is no such thing as \"society\"?

4 X 4's, Bloody huge great gas guzzling heaps of iron!








































fiat-panda.jpg


/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: \"There is no such thing as \"society\"?

Do tell us about food miles.

Some of us who work in merchant shipping would love to know about them, as people confuse New Zealand lamb and butter with airfreighted African vegetables.

And whilst we are on the lies and damned lies, tell us the average and median age of cars built by Land Rover.

I came across a gem last week - a statement by Greenpeace that over half of all carbon dioxide produced by the city of Rotterdam came from ships using the port.

Most ships will call at Rotterdam once or twice a year - they had taken the total fuel bill of all those ships over a year.
 
Re: \"There is no such thing as \"society\"?

What a lovely thread, such fun. Can I just annoy everybody by saying that we own a 4x4 and a two seater Jag. I could justify the 4x4 but quite frankly I can't be bothered to. Something to annoy everybody I think./forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Cheers

Colin

BTW - not a reply to mirelle, just tacked onto the end of the thread.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Taking a 2 year old to school in a small tank

[/ QUOTE ] Don't want to undermine the basic premise of this thread, but who starts school before the age of four?

Been on both sides myself. Had a lovely short wheel base Landcruiser for towing the ponies. Found it great for overtaking on those three-lane-single-carriageway roads - any cars on the middle lane coming the other way cleared out of my way before I was within four cables of them. Great for seeing over hedges. More or less same fuel consumption as my 14 year old Saab.

Got rid of it when the ponies went because 4X4's started breeding in the consultants' car park, and I am not comfy belonging to a crowd disposed to ostentatious display of wealth. Also, I was uncomfortably aware that I liked it because I have, erm, a small w... , sorry, insecure ego. Can't find a reference to it, but some research in the States established a significant link between SUV ownership and risk of divorce.

I believe the Liberals would bring in road fund tax of 750 for big 4X4's. Maybe I should vote for them.

Mark
 
Re: \"There is no such thing as \"society\"?

Food Miles... Such fun to be had with these!
Most people who go on about reducing food miles are the same people who want to see the EU stop subsidising its farmers so that more food can be imported from third world countries at a competitive price, leading to an increase in average food miles.

I guess I must be missing the point somewhere.
 
Re: \"There is no such thing as \"society\"?

[ QUOTE ]
Do tell us about food miles.

Some of us who work in merchant shipping would love to know about them, as people confuse New Zealand lamb and butter with airfreighted African vegetables.

And whilst we are on the lies and damned lies, tell us the average and median age of cars built by Land Rover.

I came across a gem last week - a statement by Greenpeace that over half of all carbon dioxide produced by the city of Rotterdam came from ships using the port.

Most ships will call at Rotterdam once or twice a year - they had taken the total fuel bill of all those ships over a year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? You know what they're about.

However, do tell why a man who does 30,000 miles a year feels he has a right to sit in judgement over car owners who may do less than 10k a year and may do considerably more to minimise their emissions than he does. Presumption is bad manners, is it not?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Don't want to undermine the basic premise of this thread, but who starts school before the age of four?


[/ QUOTE ]
Almost everyone /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

This government does not trust us to bring up our own children - so there is now free pre-school "education" for all children 3 and up - and many people in the 4x4 -owning classes will have had them in day care much earlier than that.
 
Re: \"There is no such thing as \"society\"?

[ QUOTE ]
Shoot me if I get as narrow-minded and pompous.

[/ QUOTE ]

But surely it's no longer socially acceptable to own a gun, so how can he?

Steve
 
[ QUOTE ]
Don't want to undermine the basic premise of this thread, but who starts school before the age of four?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't get me started.....

But actually a lot of mothers return to work after 6 months maternity leave, I have a good number of them working for me, and someone has to look after the brats during the day, so they drop Tamsin & Tarquin off at the nursery each morning. I despair, it's really no way to bring a child up, I think one parent should be at home until the youngest has reached 5 and is settled in school, but that's the way society is going.

As an employer I am grateful, having trained these lasses for years, nurturing their development as valuable members of the team, I am mortified when they tell me they're pregnant, and very happy to have them back when they return, but as a parent I find it socially irresponsible. I hope society will turn its back on this behaviour in time, but at the moment most families seem to have two working parents - I guess they need the money to pay for the childcare and the 4x4. Labour seem to encourage it more than the Tories, but both parties do to a significant degree, without seeming to have any regard for the consequences to the children.

Steve
 
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