Will the end of new petrol/diesel cars in 2030, affect boat propulsion?

Greenheart

Greenheart

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I'm prepared for some flippant one-word answers, but please, don't bother.

I'd like to know whether the ubiquitous big diesel lumps in yachts are likely to be expected to find alternative fuels, and what those lower-emission fuels may be.

2030 is soon. I joined this forum ten years ago next month, and I often feel like a newcomer...ten years ago, I (and others here) were excited by the idea of electric auxiliaries, and were encouraged by being told that the improving energy density of future cells would make that possible, 'just round the corner'.

Plenty of people have gone for Torqeedo outboards, and it seems like anyone who can afford one, is glad to have made that choice.

What scope is there for alternatives to petrol/diesel engines, specifically for leisure purposes, where use is not mitigated by commercial pressures?
 
Have you misunderstood the 2030 proposal? It's that new petrol/diesel cars can't be sold. There'll still be millions of them around, and their secondhand prices will probably rise, because electric cars are more expensive and impractical for the millions of people who don't have a private drive to park on.

As 2030 approaches, we'll probably be seeing difficulties with our electricity generating capacity, so I wouldn't be surprised if the deadline drifts a bit...
 
No, I understood the proposal.

I'm asking what alternatives to diesel (or petrol), will be used in new yachts' engines.

If we reflect on how many new cars arrive each year, the impact of no new cars ever, being conventionally fueled, is amazing.

If leisure use of boats is similarly affected, that will be a big impact too.
 
dancrane said:
Will the end of new petrol/diesel cars in 2030, affect boat propulsion?
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No. The proposed plan is to do with the phasing out of pure hydrocarbon motor vehicles. There is, currently, no proposal to stop the production or sale of petrol or diesel in 2030. That may come after 2050, but we will all be dead.
 
Would recognition of the option to use a hybrid set-up, be acknowledgement of the proposal's potential application to yachts as well as road vehicles?

The whole plan must be to cut emissions by reducing the burning of fuels where there's any low-emission alternative, and (I'm guessing) especially in the case of vehicles that are commonly used other than through commercial necessity. Although, I read about zero-emission buses being introduced in London, so I suppose size isn't an objection, so a pleasure-boat currently requiring a big diesel might be regarded in 2030 as a case that justifies fitting with a big hybrid set-up.

If sailing yachts could be assured of quickly, fully recharging their propulsion batteries at each marina-berth they visit, arrival and departure from the marinas (and reaching the point of hoisting sail) might be possible without briefly starting the diesel. Which wouldn't hurt the diesel either.

JumbleDuck said:
Biodiesel, I expect.
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With a little soupcon of bug-de-gazole in every litre. That would be enough to raise the stock value of electric solutions.

Isn't hydrogen a further option?
 
yachts with no engine could just get towed in and out of port/marinas by an electric tugboat/tender service and rely on sails the rest of the time if you dont want to invest in £20K worth of batteries to convert to electric so you can motor under your own power for 5 hours or so
 
They have already built the equivalent of a Yacht engine in electric. GM and others are experimenting with big block 454 replacements for trucks in the US. I know almost nothing about Yachts but I believe some do use the Mercruiser which is in effect a GM 454 Big Block engine.
GM Performance reveals 'EV in a box' crate motor
Chevrolet readies an electric crate motor for homebuilt EV hotrods

Hyandai are already using Hydrogen heavy duty trucks for haulage in Switzerland and I think Volvo are about to launch them WW. This will all happen quicker than people think, especially with Biden in charge in the US.
 
I think there will definitely be pressure for cleaning up yacht emissions. There was a government/DoT consultation on vessel emissions last year, but not aware if any results been published https://assets.publishing.service.g...-and-inland-waterways-a-call-for-evidence.pdf

There is a lot in the press about new product launches (some of it more informed than others), a CA Cruising article and a recent British Marine webinar.

The key issue for cruising boats is the very high energy density of diesel compared to batteries - an entire Tesla 3 battery pack (at massive cost and weight) equates to around a mere 8 litres of diesel in pure energy terms energy, or a slightly less shocking 27 litres in effective energy terms.

The BM Seminar seemed to suggest that electric power is ideal for new build river and inshore craft (probably using basic lead acid battteries), but still a bit pricey for repowering existing craft.
For typical cruising yachts the medium term solution is likely to be hybrids, with electric saildrive and small battery pack for clean/silent running in an out of harbour, but a diesel tank and generator for range.
A boat test of the Spirit 44e in our sponsor’s magazine referred to an electric propulsion system costing circa £50k, but with only a 20hp engine and even then only giving a realistic range of 15-30 miles at typical cruising speed (in flat water, no head wind or adverse tide). And this in a boat costing nearly £1m all in.

Jimmy Cornell’s latest boat is an example of another type of boat well suited to alternative propulsion - high end / high speed offshore multihulls, with big carbon rigs etc. High sailing speeds mean engine range less of an issue, and hydro generation effective plus lots of space for solar panels. Ideal ...... if you have a sponsor or can afford a top end new build.

Perhaps alternative fuels powering existing engines may be more realistic for most current boats.

But definitely should expect boating to come under scrutiny
 
Sandy said:
No. The proposed plan is to do with the phasing out of pure hydrocarbon motor vehicles. There is, currently, no proposal to stop the production or sale of petrol or diesel in 2030. That may come after 2050, but we will all be dead.
Click to expand...

This is the point most people seem to be missing. Petrol and diesel cars are not going to be banned. Just that from 2030 all NEW vehicles must have the ability to drive in a zero-emissions mode. I'm not aware of any further details on this yet, so it's possible that manufacturers will add a token system just to meet the rules.
 
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dunedin said:
A boat test of the Spirit 44e in our sponsor’s magazine referred to an electric propulsion system costing circa £50k, but with only a 20hp engine and even then only giving a realistic range of 15-30 miles at typical cruising speed (in flat water, no head wind or adverse tide). And this in a boat costing nearly £1m all in.
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The Broadblue 346 comes with a hybrid diesel electric drive with lithium batteries option. It's a 33' catamaran, so has twin electric motor drives. The option costs just under £90k with VAT.
 
Just thinking of the UK market, there must be very few new sailing yachts bought every year compared to the hundreds of thousands or more that already exist.

So, in the absence of any external incentives, I can't see why anything much will change.
 
dancrane said:
I'm prepared for some flippant one-word answers, but please, don't bother.

I'd like to know whether the ubiquitous big diesel lumps in yachts are likely to be expected to find alternative fuels, and what those lower-emission fuels may be.

2030 is soon. I joined this forum ten years ago next month, and I often feel like a newcomer...ten years ago, I (and others here) were excited by the idea of electric auxiliaries, and were encouraged by being told that the improving energy density of future cells would make that possible, 'just round the corner'.

Plenty of people have gone for Torqeedo outboards, and it seems like anyone who can afford one, is glad to have made that choice.

What scope is there for alternatives to petrol/diesel engines, specifically for leisure purposes, where use is not mitigated by commercial pressures?
Click to expand...

It's a question on a lot of minds, but the realities are more in our favour than appears the case right now. The eco heads are having a big pump up over getting rid of cars etc. Not going to happen of course. Cars are here for the duration, and will resist the siren cries when it dawns that car pollution (particulates) is mainly from tyres and brakes, not fuel. OMG.

Hydrocarbon cars will be on the roads, serviced by perhaps increasingly fewer petrol stations, but rolling well into the 2040's and even beyond. That should cover our diesel motors and outboards. But we can expect weak governments to pile on disincentive taxes. But hydrocarbon momentum will carry most of us well into retirement.

Of course those dedicated to zero this and that, may well rip out their trusty old motors and chance their hands with batteries, solar panels, etc. Could be good business for Save a boat operators.

There's a proportionality to be observed in time, but right now daft councillors are "giving us back our roads" and other lunacies, and the charge'em for using cars brigade is arming ready to strike. I often muse that productivity in this country is stagnant because too many waste their energies on pointless campaigns. The climate is changing and we need to lower the rate of advance; this is not done by chucking our boat diesels when they perhaps use a tankful a year

PWG
 
As Peter Gibbs suggests - its all a bit of a nonsense for sailing boats, we fill up once each year when we buy about 150L. Much bigger issue for motor boats that are consuming 10L per mile.
 
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