Will Schengen be suspended for two or three years.

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BurnitBlue

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Power struggle in France is causing panic in the EU. Macron is now behind in the polls for 2022 election. Frexit? It is suggested that immigration to France is to be suspended. As Schengen and FoM is an intricate part of the EU system could we see a suspension of EU immigration and schengen as support for Macron. Italy would agree but maybe not Germany. However kt would be a possible disaster for the EU if Le Pen wins.

Incidentally, I recieved official permanent residence status just yesterday in a letter from migrationsverket.se It took them four month with requests for more evidence along the way for them to make their "decision". As a result my interest in EU affaires was sparked up a bit so I googled a bit for latest news and came across the above Schengen mutterings. Interesting times ahead.

It is pointed out that the EU will do anything to stop Le Pen from winning.
 
Sailfree said:
Lost track of where you are which residency have you gained please.

I assume France by organisation had suffix .se ?
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Sweden has suffix se. My application took 4 month because of brexit and the different forms of residence from temporary to permanent. It seemed to swing around how long I had lived in Sweden before the WA became the rule on 31 dec 2020. Not easy to do, had to use debit card payments in Swedish shops along with 5 years of bank statements.

Unfortunitely the 90/180 is still not clear for permanent residents visiting other EU member states. Some say that (for instance) Sweden has allowed me to stay inside Schengen permanently so, as there is only one schengen that must also include EU wide Schengen. I take the pessamistic view that my British Passport outside Sweden puts me among the 90/180 group. Hence my keen interest in the future of Schengen and the effect of France suspending immigration and its effect on Schengen. My boat is in Greece. So its life or death.
 
BurnitBlue said:
It is pointed out that the EU will do anything to stop Le Pen from winning.
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Explicitly stated or just gossip? The EU aren't supposed to care unless there is actual delinquency like Greece/Hungary/Poland etc. and even then they don't seem to do much other than fingerwag.
 
I may not have made it clear that if Macron and that EU negotiator guy, think that Le Pen can be kept out by addressing the Muslim problem by suspending immigration it will be pointless if Muslims can enter, say, Belgium, then walk across the border. It has to be an EU wide suspension which will impact schengen and Greece where my boat sits idle.
 
BurnitBlue said:
Sweden has suffix se. My application took 4 month because of brexit and the different forms of residence from temporary to permanent. It seemed to swing around how long I had lived in Sweden before the WA became the rule on 31 dec 2020. Not easy to do, had to use debit card payments in Swedish shops along with 5 years of bank statements.

Unfortunitely the 90/180 is still not clear for permanent residents visiting other EU member states. Some say that (for instance) Sweden has allowed me to stay inside Schengen permanently so, as there is only one schengen that must also include EU wide Schengen. I take the pessamistic view that my British Passport outside Sweden puts me among the 90/180 group. Hence my keen interest in the future of Schengen and the effect of France suspending immigration and its effect on Schengen. My boat is in Greece. So its life or death.
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What's not clear? Residence in a state allows 90/180 travel in other states plus indefinite stay in state of residence. If married or in civil partnership with a citizen of the state you have residence in then unlimited travel trough Schengen while accompanied by him/her.
 
penfold said:
Explicitly stated or just gossip? The EU aren't supposed to care unless there is actual delinquency like Greece/Hungary/Poland etc. and even then they don't seem to do much other than fingerwag.
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Nothing is explicitly stated, except that other contender the EU chief negotiator chap has stated his solution as a suspension of EU wide immigration. I only strted looking at this yesterday in a sigh of relief that I could stay in Sweden. The thought that I was liable for deportation did not beat thinking about. After all applications are a box ticking exercise so if a low UK pension stopped a box being ticked I may have been out on my ear. I am not clever enough to understand the ramifications of the macron verses Le Pen result but I do know that any chance of France following UK out of the EU will fill the EU with sadness.
 
Graham376 said:
What's not clear? Residence in a state allows 90/180 travel in other states plus indefinite stay in state of residence. If married or in civil partnership with a citizen of the state you have residence in then unlimited travel trough Schengen while accompanied by him/her.
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I agree that 90/180 is the case. BUT, I have searched for a definative statement backed by law and I have not found it. There are plenty of folk posting replies to their questions on their interpretation of what the rule implies. I have even read someone say that as there is no border between schengen states it is a matter of honour to comply with the meaning of the law. That is ridiculous. It is either lawful or it isn't. Where does it state that a resident MUST seek out a customs and immigration post to declare his arrival and how long has he got to actually do it. Customs is obviously not necessary.

For me to register my departure from Sweden I would have to leave schengen via an airport or sea port to say UK then take a flight to Greece. In Athens airport there are two sections for departures. Left or right as you walk in the door. A flight back to Sweden is to the left. Once I made a mistake and entered the right hand section. I could not get to my gate from thst section. It was a big deal to get back against the flow, I was personally escorted through various office doors to get to my gate. There is no way I can register my departure from schengen on a flght to Sweden. Back in Sweden I am still in Schengen and no one would be interested in helping me booking out of schengen to comply with 90/180. It is a definition of a "dogs dinner".

It is not as simple as you make out. Anyway I would like to know. My gut feeling is that a blind eye will be given to residents inside the "one and only" Schengen.
 
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According to EU, resident third country citizen's passports should not be stamped when in transit through other Schengen countries to/from their country of residence. If we travel from Portugal where I have residence to another Schengen country, we don't have to report to anyone to book out or back in again. I don't see how getting lost in an airport has a bearing on residence.

Thank you for contacting the Europe Direct Contact Centre and apologies for the late reply.

We have consulted the Directorate-General for Justice and Consumers (DG JUST). They can inform you that when transiting via another country than the Member State of residence, passports should not be stamped on entry/exit. Residence permit holders are not limited to the maximum period of stay of 90/180 days within the Schengen area as they have a right of residence going beyond these days in the Member State which issued the residence permit.
 
BurnitBlue said:
Power struggle in France is causing panic in the EU. Macron is now behind in the polls for 2022 election. Frexit? It is suggested that immigration to France is to be suspended. As Schengen and FoM is an intricate part of the EU system could we see a suspension of EU immigration and schengen as support for Macron. Italy would agree but maybe not Germany. However kt would be a possible disaster for the EU if Le Pen wins.

Incidentally, I recieved official permanent residence status just yesterday in a letter from migrationsverket.se It took them four month with requests for more evidence along the way for them to make their "decision". As a result my interest in EU affaires was sparked up a bit so I googled a bit for latest news and came across the above Schengen mutterings. Interesting times ahead.

It is pointed out that the EU will do anything to stop Le Pen from winning.
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I am told regulalrly that nations states are sovereign and that they can make their own mind up about things.
How does the EU justify changing EU rules to force a result in a nation state's elections?
 
Graham376 said:
According to EU, resident third country citizen's passports should not be stamped when in transit through other Schengen countries to/from their country of residence. If we travel from Portugal where I have residence to another Schengen country, we don't have to report to anyone to book out or back in again. I don't see how getting lost in an airport has a bearing on residence.

Thank you for contacting the Europe Direct Contact Centre and apologies for the late reply.

We have consulted the Directorate-General for Justice and Consumers (DG JUST). They can inform you that when transiting via another country than the Member State of residence, passports should not be stamped on entry/exit. Residence permit holders are not limited to the maximum period of stay of 90/180 days within the Schengen area as they have a right of residence going beyond these days in the Member State which issued the residence permit.
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Interesting reply. I was not lost in the airport. I went through the wrong section on my first trip back to Sweden from Greece. There is always a guard at the entrance of each section to check boarding passes. My boarding pass was seen but I was waved through by mistake. Once through passport control it is not allowed for the passenger to walk back into the main concourse because you have cleared schengen. The gates have flights from that section that are leaving Schengen. I gave the Swedish example because I have done that now many times and by experience use the correct section. The one without a customs or passport control. Those gates are for flights destined for other Schengen countries. Right now, in Athens or Thesaloniki there is no way to clear schengen and then board a flight to another schengen country. Obviously. Anyway, thought I should explain why I was not lost and the subject was the impossibility of implementing 90 /180. not residency but 90/180.

Anyway we agree (I think) but seem to be at cross purposes. I was, from discussions on this forum, of the opinion that residants of a member state are still bound to 90/180 rule. In another member state. I was prepared to accept this BUT I argued that it should be 360/360 from logic and the lack of a specific law and the impossability to implement this rule. I really thought you were disagreeing with that arguement.

Please can you confirm from your information that indeed a permanent (or temporary) resident does not need to stay within 90/180 but has essentially freedom of movement and should not even seek a stamp in their passport.

I get this from the second part of your last post. Unless I am reading this totally backwards. "Resident permit holders are not limited to the maximum period of stay of 90/180 ln another member state etc "
 
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Caraway said:
I am told regulalrly that nations states are sovereign and that they can make their own mind up about things.
How does the EU justify changing EU rules to force a result in a nation state's elections?
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They did it on the Irish referendum and I believe on a French one. They justify it because their is no body to justify it to. They consider themselves unelected but appointed Kings and Emperers of the New Europe. A confluence of Monarchy and a Republic.
 
BurnitBlue said:
Please can you confirm from your information that indeed a permanent (or temporary) resident does not need to stay within 90/180 but has essentially freedom of movement and should not even seek a stamp in their passport.
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NO. As I said above, a third country resident is limited to 90/180 in any part of Schengen he/she is not resident in, unless travelling with EU citizen partner. Add to the 90 a few days in transit. When leaving Portugal a few weeks ago, I handed my residence card in with my passport and didn't get an exit stamp.

So far this year we have little travel information thanks to Covid so will have to wait and see how different countries handle it. No doubt there will be a couple who make up their own rules - as usual.
 
Went back on google for any more info on French immigration proposal to suspend all immigration in the EU. Nothing new but i put a name to the EU negotiator. Marcel Barnier. I was thinking the disarray of schengen would help uk based skippers with boats in Greece. I must admit that I also thought it would help residents of a member state if 90/180 still applied to them. From Graham 376 post it appears residents are 360/360.
 
Graham376 said:
NO. As I said above, a third country resident is limited to 90/180 in any part of Schengen he/she is not resident in, unless travelling with EU citizen partner. Add to the 90 a few days in transit. When leaving Portugal a few weeks ago, I handed my residence card in with my passport and didn't get an exit stamp.

So far this year we have little travel information thanks to Covid so will have to wait and see how different countries handle it. No doubt there will be a couple who make up their own rules - as usual.
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Wow either you or I am reading the post from DG-just completely differently. I see it as a catagorical statement that member state residents have the right to stay beyond 90/180 in the schengen area. OK I have not lived in an English speaking country for 30 years but i still remember that a sentance is a complete stand alone statement between a Capital letter and a full stop. Don't get me wrong. I am not all that concerned about 90/180 because I am aiming for the Caibbean this year. I am concerned that my comprehension of English written language is so faulty that even after reading the DGJUST post a dozen times i read it differently than you do. It also is impossible to implement and not even necessary if residents were allowed the same rights in the greater Schengen than they are allowed in the host member state.

It is also logical because the only difference between my application for permanent residence and citizenship is the ability to speak Swedish. I am sure that a Greek immigration guard could not give a rats ass whether I, a British citizen entering Greece can speak Swedish or not. I can but I prefer to stay away from dual citizenship if possible.
 
BurnitBlue said:
Sweden has suffix se. My application took 4 month because of brexit and the different forms of residence from temporary to permanent. It seemed to swing around how long I had lived in Sweden before the WA became the rule on 31 dec 2020. Not easy to do, had to use debit card payments in Swedish shops along with 5 years of bank statements.

Unfortunitely the 90/180 is still not clear for permanent residents visiting other EU member states. Some say that (for instance) Sweden has allowed me to stay inside Schengen permanently so, as there is only one schengen that must also include EU wide Schengen. I take the pessamistic view that my British Passport outside Sweden puts me among the 90/180 group. Hence my keen interest in the future of Schengen and the effect of France suspending immigration and its effect on Schengen. My boat is in Greece. So its life or death.
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Thanks for info - hope it goes well.

We are in the similar situation as residents of Portugal although in our case our boat is also in Portugal.

If i can get my language skills up enough i with apply for a Portuguese passport as both UK and Portugal allow dual nationality.
 
BurnitBlue said:
Wow either you or I am reading the post from DG-just completely differently. I see it as a catagorical statement that member state residents have the right to stay beyond 90/180 in the schengen area.
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They were talking about time in transit to/from country of residence. Days in transit are extra to 90 days. All this has been covered in countless threads over the past couple of years, surprised regular participants still don't understand the rules. Europe Direct Contact Centre will answer specific questions.
 
Graham376 said:
They were talking about time in transit to/from country of residence. Days in transit are extra to 90 days. All this has been covered in countless threads over the past couple of years, surprised regular participants still don't understand the rules. Europe Direct Contact Centre will answer specific questions.
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We will have to differ. I sincerely believe you are wrong if you base you reason for 90/180 on that post from "DG just". It is late here so I will give my reasons tomorrow. Basically the logic is all wrong and I suspect the structure of the letter is misleading. Sleep well .
 
OK, here's a quote from a Dutch site - Travel in Schengen countries with a residence permit or visa (ind.nl)

Travel with a residence permit
A valid Dutch residence permit allows you to stay in all countries in the Schengen area up to 90 days in any 180 day period.

Please post any links you find to EU sites which state third country residents have unlimited days of travel in Schengen, when travelling alone. I've given up searching.
 
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