Will anyone want to buy my anchor chain?

[prv]

Ariam's new ground tackle (last spring) is thoroughly reliable at anchor. Unfortunately it's less good at sea - in the season and a half since then, I've come to the conclusion that I went overboard a little on the quantity of chain. At the berth the waterline is above the antifoul, and in a rough sea the bow doesn't quite rise as it should. I've always avoided stowing anything too heavy in the forepeak lockers (the forward-most one is bulk kitchen-roll stowage!) so it's some chain that's going to have to go.

Thing is, my chain is 60 metres of nearly-new 8mm Grade 40 from Bradney, with an enlarged link each end and a test certificate tucked away somewhere. It seems a waste to just saw it in half. I'm thinking maybe I should sell it to someone who can make use of it, buy a 30m length of chain, and hopefully have a few quid left over to put towards the necessary anchorplait - rather than a 30m bucket of chain in the shed I have no use for. But then again, I might wait a while for someone to need that particular chain, and they'd have to be reasonably nearby given the cost of transporting such a weight - and I have no idea what the going rate for second-hand chain would be (it cost about £250 new). So I dunno. Thoughts?

Pete

(Not interested in discussing whether or not I should be ditching the chain at all - we've done tests moving various lengths in and out of the locker, and while I'd always prefer chain to rope I'm satisfied this is the right move.)

 

[maxi77]

When I bought new chain I had no problem selling the old stuff which was in reasonable condition. I would suspect 30 m of new chain would sell well at a reasonable disount from the retail price, you can always negotiate down but never up.

 

[oldbilbo]

PM sent....

 

[charles_reed]

Faced with the same dilemma (I've 65m of G40 of which 50 is actually made by Bradney before they started importing Chinese G30). I'm going to ditch 15m and add 50m of 14mm Octoplait - the textile is about 12% the weight of chain. With only 30m of chain you're rather limited in anchoring depths and I've frequently had to anchor in 20m water eg outside La Coruna in 18m, when there was no room inside the marinas and a SW gale was forecast.

 

[prv]

With only 30m of chain you're rather limited in anchoring depths

To be clear, I'm not planning to *only* have the 30m of chain. I'll be splicing on a good length of warp, benefiting from the light weight of rope to actually extend the total length available.

Pete

 

[Norman_E]

Why not cut your chain and have anchorplait spliced on? You only need the enlarged link on the anchor end. 20 metres is probably enough chain to keep though 30 is OK if you can accept the weight, and you could add about 50 or 60 metres of warp to give yourself enough scope for deep anchorages or strong winds. Either sell the part you don't need or use part of it for a kedge anchor, also with a spliced on rope. My kedge has 10 metres of 10mm chain plus 50 metres of 18mm three strand. I doubt you will get enough by selling the existing whole chain to cover 30 metres of new.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

When I buy second hand my upper guide to buy is 50% to 75% of new at current new prices. If I was in the market for the new chain and your specification matched (I would place a premium on certificate, Bradney, nearly new) so would be prepared to pay upto the 75%.

 

[Storyline]

Is there anyway you can figure out a route so you can lead some of the chain aft ? This is what we have done in Storyline, we have 35m in the top locker then another 25m in a lower locker. There was a drain hole in this which I enlarged so the links could just pass through. Then routed the chain under the water tank and the balance is kept under the mast area. It is a bit of a faff pulling the extra chain up into the anchor locker - it is a two person job as the chain has to be kept taut so it does not jam - one pulls and the other guides. In the five years we have had this system we have only used it three times. Each of those times I was very glad we had it.

Guess your anchor locker must have a drain hole so you may be lucky enough to find a route back.

However, given all the recent discussions regarding how much more important the anchor weight is rather than chain, a chain & warp solution now seems to be thought adequate. The main advantage as I see it for having a long length of chain is that it means you can anchor in deeper water.

 

[prv]

When I buy second hand my upper guide to buy is 50% to 75% of new at current new prices. If I was in the market for the new chain and your specification matched (I would place a premium on certificate, Bradney, nearly new) so would be prepared to pay upto the 75%.

Thanks, that's very helpful. I never know how to price things I sell on the forums. I'll run through the options later using that figure and see what makes most sense financially, ignoring the emotional aspects of cutting a good bit of chain in half

Anchorplait is more expensive than I was expecting.

A few quick questions on anchor warps since I've always had all-chain before:

How significant is the stowing advantage of anchorplait over three-strand? I'm going to be hauling in with a vertical windlass directly down into a chain locker, and I don't want to have to coil it by hand.

The windlass has a rope/chain gypsy. I believe the rope part of it is designed for three-strand, but presumably it'll work with anchorplait just as well?

I don't like the type of rope/chain splice where the rope passes through a single link and back into itself. The kind where rope and chain are combined for a foot or so seems more convincing to me. But will it go round the windlass ok?

Cheers,

Pete

 

[prv]

Is there anyway you can figure out a route so you can lead some of the chain aft ?

Nope. The locker is in the modern style, open to the deck and above the foot of the forepeak berth, which extends right into the tip of the stem (and needs to as the forepeak is on the small side). The locker is also completely sealed from the inside of the boat as part of the basic hull construction, and I want to keep it that way.

Guess your anchor locker must have a drain hole so you may be lucky enough to find a route back.

Drain hole is overboard out the side of the bow

However, given all the recent discussions regarding how much more important the anchor weight is rather than chain, a chain & warp solution now seems to be thought adequate.

Certainly in many other parts of the world a short length of chain and lots of warp seems to have been standard for a long time. Objectively, the only benefit of chain seems to be robustness (against chafe etc; breaking strain is no better) and perhaps the fact that in light winds the boat will drift about less due to the drag of chain on the bottom. Emotionally I'm having a little more difficulty with the idea - for a long time in the UK we've all believed that MORE CHAIN is always better, and only toy boats anchor on rope. I was quite proud of having 40m of chain on our previous 24-footer (a traditional hull design which carried the weight without trouble). But it's an unavoidable fact that we have weed growing around the bow above the antifoul (and no, I can't just move the waterline as we have coppercoat and then some go faster stripes just above), and in some rather boisterous conditions off Barfleur last year the bow was definitely crashing into and through waves I would have expected it to rise over.

The main advantage as I see it for having a long length of chain is that it means you can anchor in deeper water.

I'd turn that on its head - the advantage of rope is that you can carry more of it and so anchor in deeper water. This is exactly what I plan to do - I'll probably buy a 50m reel of warp giving 80m in total, but space permitting I could perhaps even go to 100m total.

Pete

 

[rob2]

I think you're right to accept the limitations of the boat's design. Sailing locally from Southampton, 30m of chain will suffice and a little more may occasionally come in useful. To that end, I'd suggest that in home waters you don't consign the new warp to the anchor locker where it will get dirty and get chafed by the chain sitting on top of it. I understand that everyone would ideally like the whole rode to work seamlessly over the capstan, but it wouldn't be so much effort to hand haul a meter or two over if you shackle a line onto the chain unless you are planning on extended cruising to deeper ports.

There have been a number of articles over the years about various types of rope used as anchor rodes suffering rapid deterioration, but apart from anchorplait diminshing in diameter once used most are to do with snagging things on the bottom. An extension shouldn't reach the sea bed, so you should be OK.

Used to sail a T24 and, if anything, she was so buoyant in the bows she would track better to windward in a Solent chop with weight added to the bows. It was a no-brainer to carry all chain in the anchor locker (30m) - but there was always a long warp aboard that could be added.

Rob.

 

[Stemar]

Having had a toy boat for a good few years (17m of chain and 50m), I can vouch for the system, though I haven't got a windlass so I can't talk about that aspect. I almost always let out enough scope that it's rope over the bow roller and at least a couple of metres more, so I rarely need a snubber.

Doing the splice is very straightforward. Basically, you separate the octplait into 4 twin stands and feed them in and out of the links from opposite sides. Jimmy Green used to have a page on how to, but that seems to have disappeared, maybe because they'd rather you paid them, but I found a less good version here: http://www.sailmagazine.com/boatworks-know-how-sails/8-strand-splice.

One disadvantage of the long splice is that it tends to keep a length of chain wet with sea water, so it tends to corrode. After 5 years, the splces started to stiffen and had to be helped to loosen up from time to time and after 10 years, I'm going to have to saw off the 6 or 8" of rusted chain and remake my splice this winter. Leaving the splice out in the rain whenever the opportunity presents itself might help, but I suspect it's going happen sooner or later whatever you do.

 

[charles_reed]

<<Anchorplait is more expensive than I was expecting>>

It is pricey especially if you use the size which fits the chain gipsy. For an 8mm chain gipsy you need 14mm anchorplait - though I get away with 10mm on 7mm chain on my kedges.

<<A few quick questions on anchor warps since I've always had all-chain before:

How significant is the stowing advantage of anchorplait over three-strand? I'm going to be hauling in with a vertical windlass directly down into a chain locker, and I don't want to have to coil it by hand. >>
It's very much kinder on the hands, hauling it in, doesn't have the 30% hysteresis strength loss that nylon 3 strand has. It, if anything, is more difficult to put away than 3 strand but very much less likely to tangle as it runs out.

<<The windlass has a rope/chain gypsy. I believe the rope part of it is designed for three-strand, but presumably it'll work with anchorplait just as well?>> anchorplair works with anything - I frequently use the sheet winches on it. With a gipsy you can go to a much smaller diameter of Octoplait (it's other name).

<<I don't like the type of rope/chain splice where the rope passes through a single link and back into itself. The kind where rope and chain are combined for a foot or so seems more convincing to me. But will it go round the windlass ok?>>
Download the splice chain/octoplait from Jimmy Green, very easy to follow, holds a treat and runs through with no problem.
If you can get up to 100m approach English Braids direct and buy a roll, it's about 60% of the best price you can find with the chandlers.
Other benefits is that its modulus of elasticity is about 50% greater than 3 strand and resistance to chafe slightly better - but it is always more expensive.
You can get in nylon or polyester - the latter is stronger but more expensive.

 

[prv]

I understand that everyone would ideally like the whole rode to work seamlessly over the capstan, but it wouldn't be so much effort to hand haul a meter or two over if you shackle a line onto the chain unless you are planning on extended cruising to deeper ports.

This is a vertical-axis windlass incorporating the navel pipe down to the locker, so shackling anything temporarily onto the end of the chain would be difficult. The necessary thimble in the end of the rope wouldn't fit through, so I'd have to stopper the chain off ahead of the windlass somehow, bring up the bitter end of the chain, and shackle it on before releasing the stopper. I also wouldn't be able to use the windlass on the rope, or not easily anyway, because of it being on deck rather than passing down the hole. And it's also possible that the shackle and thimble might be too big to fit through my very narrow bow roller (which has a fixed loop over the top of it to hold the anchor in position and prevent the chain jumping out) in which case I'd have to pass the end of the chain out through the roller before shackling on (and run the warp over the other roller). This is all stuff I've thought about for my existing auxiliary warp (40m stowed under an aft bunk in case I ever need more than the 60m chain) - it's acceptable for the once a season exceptional situation, but not on a regular basis.

I do cruise further afield than Southampton, time off work permitting, and I particularly want to visit the Channel Islands a lot more. Not being able to dry out at low water, I'm going to need a lot more than 30m to cover their tidal ranges.

Used to sail a T24 and, if anything, she was so buoyant in the bows she would track better to windward in a Solent chop with weight added to the bows.

As well as the 40m of 8mm chain, Kindred Spirit also had a dirty great block of lead in one of the bow lockers to help her trim

Pete

 

[Deleted member 36384]

My experience with anchorplait is that it falls and stows reasonably well if you have a decent fall, say at least 2' (it sounds as if you have) three-strand does not stow well, but my experience with three strand was around 25 mm OD, nylon and the rope was stiff, new three strand might be better. One other disadvantage with the three strand was that on occasion it kinked; I would only use anchorplait because of this.

 

[FishyInverness]

Anchorplait is more expensive than I was expecting.

Hi Pete,

Marathon Leisure market a Nylon Octoplait Anchor Warp under their "Waveline" brand, which is significantly cheaper than most, if it helps.

 

[lw395]

.....



I'd turn that on its head - the advantage of rope is that you can carry more of it and so anchor in deeper water. This is exactly what I plan to do - I'll probably buy a 50m reel of warp giving 80m in total, but space permitting I could perhaps even go to 100m total.

Pete

A boat I raced on once kedged in about 80 metres of water to win a race.
220m coils of poly-something lorry string are quite cheap...

 

[PhillM]

Pete, I'd advertise both for sale. First one that goes, is your answer.

After all you HAVE 60m and 2 x 30M. Just see who wants what.

 

[Storyline]

Still a bit unsure which type of splice is best for running through the gypsy. Have got a Lewmar one and it says it handles rope but it is the join/splice that concerns me - surely it will be a lot thicker than chain or rope alone.

 

[Stemar]

The long splice is a bit stiffer than either rope or chain, especially when it starts to get rusty, but the diameter isn't significantly bigger than the short diameter of the chain.