Will a volvo seal really wear your shaft?

[Tim Good]

Ok so Volvo seals get good reports but people seem to move towards PSS and Deep Sea Seals as a modern equivalent which has no rotating contact with the shaft. I.e. just like me. I had a new shaft so I put a PSS on it.

People talk about volvo type seals wearing the shaft down. Is that generally accurate on a sailing vessel where generally the motor is use to get in and our of harbour / anchorage and the shaft is rotating at relatively low revolutions?

Basically after an issue with PSS I'm thinking the easiest solution is to bang on a water fed volvo seal and be done but with a pending circumnavigation next year, a new shaft and a lot of milage on the cards, maybe a volvo type isn't ideal?

Thoughts?

Tim

 

[pvb]

I think the wear rate is very slow with a Volvo-type seal. If you're thinking of one, the Radice version may be preferable as it doesn't need "burping" and it has a built-in greaser.

 

[Ruffles]

Surely if there was anything that abrasive in the seal it would wear out the rubber a hundred times faster than the steel shaft.
The seals are rated five years? Expect to replace the shaft in 2515!

 

[Tim Good]

I think the wear rate is very slow with a Volvo-type seal. If you're thinking of one, the Radice version may be preferable as it doesn't need "burping" and it has a built-in greaser.

Yeah I forgot the terminology for the one with waterfed and greaser. I'd basically get the Michigan version in exchange for the Michigan PSS that is causing me issues now. Like this basically:

 

[ditchcrawler]

I had two Hunter boats with Volvo shaft seals as they are fitted as standard.No problem with either.Volvo talk about replacing in 7 years.
As I was a member of the Hunter Association I asked how long before owners changed them.No one reported problems at 7 years and several people had had the same one for 20 years or so.
Owners were replacing at 10 to 15 years to be on the safe side although there were no problems.
Regular yearly greasing is the key.One of very few Volvo items which are not expensive and do the job well.

 

[Tranona]

Generally there is no wear problem with lip seals on a shaft, whether they be Volvo or other brands. However it seems that when it does happen the shaft wears rather than the seals, just the same as in a water pump. Experience shows that if the seals are regularly greased wear is not an issue.

 

[pcatterall]

Generally there is no wear problem with lip seals on a shaft, whether they be Volvo or other brands. However it seems that when it does happen the shaft wears rather than the seals, just the same as in a water pump. Experience shows that if the seals are regularly greased wear is not an issue.

Could be that if the boat is unused in the water for a long time there could be a deposit formed on part of the seal then in use that part of the seal is driven into contact with the shaft and causes wear. I am still trying to understand what caused the worn ring on my shaft which has a 3 year old lip seal from Tides Marine’ ( current theory is still crevice corrosion) due to long periods unused in oxygen depleted waters)

 

[Gwylan]

Ok so Volvo seals get good reports but people seem to move towards PSS and Deep Sea Seals as a modern equivalent which has no rotating contact with the shaft. I.e. just like me. I had a new shaft so I put a PSS on it.

People talk about volvo type seals wearing the shaft down. Is that generally accurate on a sailing vessel where generally the motor is use to get in and our of harbour / anchorage and the shaft is rotating at relatively low revolutions?

Basically after an issue with PSS I'm thinking the easiest solution is to bang on a water fed volvo seal and be done but with a pending circumnavigation next year, a new shaft and a lot of milage on the cards, maybe a volvo type isn't ideal?

Thoughts?

Tim

We have been in a muddy, drying environment and this has meant that we have only got Volvo seals to last about 3 years at a time. We do use the boat a lot, so maybe we have clocked up the hours anyway. We have not seen obvious signs of wear on the shaft, But no amount of grease was going to stop it from doing a lot more than dripping.

This season we have swapped for a Radice seal, with positive pressure to wash the crud and sand out of the seal. Hopefully that will work. Seems to be OK after 200 hours - and on a sailing boat! What a rubbish season for sailing. But it does like to be greased too - easier than the messing about with the Volvo model though.

 

[superheat6k]

Boat before last had a Volvo Blackjack, last had two PSS.

I had the Blackjack fail and overheat requiring an emergency haul out. The big issue was alignment of the shaft central in the shaft tube. You cannot physically check this in the water, and if the shaft is rubbing it will wear out the seal bearing. I came up with a method using a laser level strapped to the gearbox output coupling. This would shine onto the fatter end of the taper. If when rotating the shaft the beam described a circle the alignment is OK, but if it described an ellipse the alignment is out.

After ~25 years service and ~ 4000 hours the shaft did have a distinct wear area where the seal lips bore on the shaft surface.

It is also vital to set the labia like lips with the yellow plastic tool. After the shaft is slid into position the lips are facing inward - the tool pushes the flaps outward.

The PSS IMHO are a completely different level of engineering and in my view are excellent. I only replaced mine because I had to change the cutlass bearings, and the seals looked tired, but did not drip a droplet.

Below 12 knots the water feed is not necessary with the PSS. I would recommend fitting a jubilee clip next to the rotor on the inboard part of the shaft as a precaution should the grub screws come loose. New seals are supplied with loctite pre-applied, but if in doubt a drip of 243 will secure them adequately.

I did consider using Tides but found their customer service non-existent.

 

[Norman_E]

All the Volvo seal did to the shaft on my boat was put a very nice polish on the short bit that it ran on. No measurable wear could be seen on a shaft that was new in 2007, and had the seal replaced in 2013. The seal itself was probably as old as the 1988 boat. Despite that there is a risk of wear if the rubber seal picks up any grit. It is a fact that in a plain bearing situation such as a white metal crankshaft bearing the softer metal eventually wears out but if there is any hard abrasive grit present it will imbed into the soft metal and result in the harder shaft being scored. My boat is in an area where the sea is generally clean and the water carries little in the way of sand, but I can imagine that a boat the sits in a mud berth might have problems with any type of seal either wearing out, or wearing the shaft.

 

[charles_reed]

All lip-seals will wear a shaft locally, especially in sandy conditions.
Having moved from one to a PSS seal I wouldn't consider going back
The "7 years" referred to has nothing to do with shaft-wear, but applies to all "rubber" moulded bellows, whether Radice, Volvo or PSS.
When I changed mine, after 12 years, the old bellows was still perfect and, IMHO, has more to do with limiting product liability than any engineering criteria.

 

[Modulation]

Concur with the other supporters of the Volvo seal. I replaced mine after 21 years and no discernible wear - just a little more polished than the rest of - the shaft. FYI you can get a similar seal - I'm told it's the same manufacturers but not in a Volvo box - from ASAP Supplies. Costs about 60%.

 

[Plum]

Concur with the other supporters of the Volvo seal. I replaced mine after 21 years and no discernible wear - just a little more polished than the rest of - the shaft. FYI you can get a similar seal - I'm told it's the same manufacturers but not in a Volvo box - from ASAP Supplies. Costs about 60%.

Another supporter for the Volvo seal. Current one is 15 years old and 850 running hours with no problems. Greasing it once or twice a year is easy and quick while afloat, let me know if you want to know how.

Colin. www.solocoastalsailing.co.UK

 

[Tim Good]

Ok so I'm pretty tempted based on feedback to ditch the PSS and get a Radice volvo seal.

However I'm in the Bristol Channel at the moment which is silty as a bog. That said, we're off next April to the cleaner waters of Scotland and Norway so I suppose a few months in silty waters wont make a big difference.

 

[Tranona]

Ok so I'm pretty tempted based on feedback to ditch the PSS and get a Radice volvo seal.

However I'm in the Bristol Channel at the moment which is silty as a bog. That said, we're off next April to the cleaner waters of Scotland and Norway so I suppose a few months in silty waters wont make a big difference.

Not sure you will get a radice as they only do 1" and 1 1/4"

 

[Tim Good]

Not sure you will get a radice as they only do 1" and 1 1/4"

Michigan Propulsion in Newton Abbott so them in larger sizes. Made in France apparently.

 

[Tranona]

Michigan Propulsion in Newton Abbott so them in larger sizes. Made in France apparently.

Not a Radice - but similar presumably. new one on me as not seen them before. sounds interesting for larger shafts which have only been available in metric from Volvo or Radice.

 

[Tim Good]

Not a Radice - but similar presumably. new one on me as not seen them before. sounds interesting for larger shafts which have only been available in metric from Volvo or Radice.

No not technically a Radice. I added a photo of it on page 1 of this thread. I imagine it is pretty much identical.

 

[macd]

Not sure you will get a radice as they only do 1" and 1 1/4"

That's true, in Imperial, but they also do 25, 30, 35 and 40mm. All of the latter are offered with two different hose sizes, a range rather larger than for the Volvo seal.
More info here: http://www.sillette.co.uk/price_pdf_files/deep_sea_mane_craft_shaft_seal.pdf

 

[Scomber]

Another supporter for the Volvo seal. Current one is 15 years old and 850 running hours with no problems. Greasing it once or twice a year is easy and quick while afloat, let me know if you want to know how.

Colin. www.solocoastalsailing.co.UK

hi-i might give this a go !
how are you greasing the volvo seal whilst afloat?-i usually just do before lift in for the season-suppose could dry out to add some more.