will a dried out MAB (long keel etc) refloat?

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MarkGrubb

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Hi all,

The other week I was chatting about running aground and drying out with a guy at the boatyard. We both own MAB long keelers. He has a wooden Folkboat and I a have an Elizabethan 29, so similar shape but mines a bit longer and slighty more beam: bit fatter round the middle.

Though like most I've find myself accidently aground now and then, I've never dried out completely with the boat is on its side, so have no experience to speak of, but I've always assumed that provided it was leaning up hill, so to speak, the boat would just refloat when tide comes in.

My folkboat friend was of the opinion that there is no guarantee a boat will refloat before the water comes over the cockpit coaming and floods through the washerboards. The conversation was generally about longkeels similar in shape to a folkboat. His suggestion was that, to be on the safe side, if I find myself high and dry then I should dig a trench under the keel in the hope that as the tide floods, the boat will slip into the trench to help it come more upright, and from this position it will hopefully refloat.

So, am I wrong to believe that all long keelers (and particularly my E29) will refloat after completely drying out and going over on their sides. Should i be more cautious when sailing in shallow channels on big tides?
 
Diggging a trench requires a bottom firm enough to stand on and soft enough to dig!

Why not consider wedging the boat up as the tide falls? Or sealing the washboards or, better still .. not running aground as I did last weekend!
 
Well it would depend a lot on the shape of the boat ie the beam and the width of the side decks, all assuming a self draining cockpit.

My little trailer sailer while nothing like your boat will happily float on its side with mast touching the water. (The boat is happy not the skipper)
(This happens with the aid of a strong wind and out of control spinnacker)
The point is that it floats with a water line over the gunwhale covering the cabin windows with water pouring in the cockpit over the coming and seats but it does not enter the main entrance hatch either from the side or over the bottom of the hatch when upright again. So no water in the cabin.

However I would not want to do this with waves coming onto the low side beam and although it is probably OK the front hatch is always locked. My boat however is beamy at 2.5 metres for 6.5 metres overall lenght. So there is lots of bouyancy in the beamy part.

I would suggest you put the wash boards in, seal the front and entrance hatch (and cockpit lockers) and hope for the best. Yes digging a hole might give you something to do while waiting and make you feel usefull. But basically it is up to the boat to save itself.

good luck if it happens olewill
 
We accidentally ran aground and dried out years ago in our little Splinter (21ft fin keel) and she did lift OK. She was also quite a slim yacht. Unbelievably nerve wracking though!
 
I once saw a very pretty little long keel boat - I don't know what it was, it looked like a slightly larger version of a Folkboat - aground, on flat mud, and completely dried out in Strangford Loch. When the tied came back in, it was swamped. Very sad. But the owner appeared to do nothing to improve the situation. I would have been running around like a headless chicken sealing the companionway, digging trenches, lashing the dinghy to side etc. May not have helped though.

Worth adding that there was no more than a gentle breeze and dead flat sea.
 
I dried out a tradewind 33 (not quite a purpose) on Ray Sand and refloated it successfully. once we saw we were stuck we made sure that she laid over on the higher side. when dry laid out an anchor in our intended direction of escape and then waited for the water to come back. We let CG know we were there so we did not spark a rescue attempt.
 
Think I'm missing something.

As the water goes down I would have thought my boat would lean over at a greater and greater angle until enough water has receded for the sides to touch the seabed. As i would have thought all long and fin keel boats do. Based on that observation I would expect the reverse to happen as the water comes in. But conversations with my folkboat friend and a comment from whipper_snapper suggest that may not be the case.
 
It depends if there is enough buoyancy in the bit of boat that is immersed to lift the weight of the whole thing before water starts to flood down hatches and companionways. It depends on the shape of the boat and very importantly on the angle you are lying. Lying uphill is probably OK, if lying down the slope, you are probably screwed.
 
I agree with Clifford_Pope who put it so succinctly.
What happens on the way down will happen on th eway back up.
His point is - watch what happens, if the water starts to breach the cabin while settling - until the water level is lower than the companionway - then you know the same thing will happen on the way up.
I would have thought that most if not all designers would have tried to ensure that the companionway is above the floating waterlevel at all angles down to at least horizontal and probably a bit further.
Now if you were stranded on a steep bank and were facing "downhill" that may present a problem, but you will find out about it on the way down!
In a small-ish boat I would think it would be possible to lay a kedge attached to a halyard and winch yourself round by the masthead before you were stuck fast (possibly workable even then - think of all that leverage)
 
Yes very succinctly. OK. Thanks MikeMonty. I understand now. If water either comes over the coaming or up the cockpit drain (though I can close those), to a level above the companionway, before the boat is settled, then I'm screwed.

That technique would require a pretty heavy kedge I would have thought, even with leverage of the mast. Unlikely a small boat would carry something big enough. OK, so there is the holding power of the anchor, but won't it just pull out if the warp is taken to the top of the mast? Need some pretty big scope to get the angle of pull low enough. Then again, if I'm leaning downhill and have nowhere to go, anything is worth a try.

They were my thoughts too whipper_snapper, and as my boat is a bit fatter round the beam, I thought she may have more bouyancy than the folkboat.
 
Remember of course, that as the boat settles the weight of the keel is taken in part by the ground and the boat will "heel over" higher in the water than if it were simply heeled over by the wind in free water.
 
If as she settles you start getting really worried, you would have the opportunity to stuff things underneath - fenders, mattresses, gangplank resting on something as a wedge, anything to gain a few inches.

I did once through stupidity a long time ago moor in inadequate depth on a shelving shelf on the Norfolk Broads. I woke in the morning with the boat heeling away from the bank, and the tide clearly a long way still to go. I took a rope from the masthead to a firm point ashore, and found the leverage sufficient to pull the boat a long way nearer upright. I then dug with oars a channel for the keel, and she sat comfortably perched out of the water until the tide came in.
 
Speaking from a long and occasionally painful experience of "drying out" a Liz 29, both on purpose and accidentally, she should come up without water coming over the coaming (a) if the coaming is as high as the original and (b) if the ballast etc. is the same. With a self draining cockpit, this should not be fatal anyway. I sailed for a year on the East coast, out of a half tide mooring Maylandsea, and got the hang of going aground after a few outings. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif "Evadne" has no problems, and even when blown flat under sail will not take water into the cockpit, but I know of at least two who do take water over the coamings under sail when well pressed, so there are variations between boats.

The most important thing to remember when running aground is (a) Put the kettle on, it doesn't work at 45 degrees and (b) close the sink, as water will definitely come in there.

Otherwise you have it right, lean her uphill, watch out for where the mast will land in a narrow channel and enjoy the scenery!! I'm sure you're rtight in that not all
 
[ QUOTE ]
I once saw a very pretty little long keel boat - I don't know what it was, it looked like a slightly larger version of a Folkboat - aground, on flat mud, and completely dried out in Strangford Loch. When the tied came back in, it was swamped. Very sad. But the owner appeared to do nothing to improve the situation. I would have been running around like a headless chicken sealing the companionway, digging trenches, lashing the dinghy to side etc. May not have helped though.

Worth adding that there was no more than a gentle breeze and dead flat sea.

[/ QUOTE ]Its very rare to find a boat that has been designed so badly that she won't refloat of her own accord. I echo others concerns about not lying too much 'downhill', but even a slight 'downhill' won't worry the vast majority of boats.

Stop worrying and enjoy your sailing.
 
Once used a pair of spinnaker poles as beaching legs at Salcombe. Couldn't get off mainly because it was sardine time, we had to be quick while the boat was still fairly vertical. Very stable they were, but may not be as good if it was gooey mud.
 
Another issue to consider; If on mud, it is a VERY sticky medium & could hold you down while tide continues rise until bouancy overcomes suction of the mud - or not, as the case may be! I have had this happen in SAND to a bilge keeler that had been pushed over so that one keel was deep in the sand. It took a very long time to lift out. Long enough for me to evacuate the wife & kids to another boat in the early hours of the morning I was so worried.

Digging a hole in mud or sand is a waste of time. As you dig to the waterlevel, the sides collapse in - unless you can shore it up with piles. Letting her fall on the inflatable may help, if it doesn't burst!
 
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