Wightlink rescues MacGregor...

gandy said:
Isn't this a MacGregor on the further pontoon?

MacGregor.jpg
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Thanks Tony for that brilliant photo. I haven't laughed so much for ages!
Especially fitting in this thread IMO.

The car driver forgot that cars should stay on the land but the boat can go in the water?
His launching technique requires some practice?
No one told him that the car shouldn't go in the water so he's going to sue their sorry ass?
The tide came in?
A technical hitch?
He's a feckwit?
"It's a 4x4 and so it can go anywhere"

The possibilities are almost endless, but whatever caused it his car is knackered.
Obviously cars should be fitted with a device that prevents idiots driving them into the water!
Perhaps prospective drivers should be given an intelligence test.
Or should they just be left to get on with it? :)

Anent the Macs - They have their place in the scheme of things and if used sensibly will perform justafine :)
 
Great Thread

This is a great thread, almost persuading me to go out and buy a Mac! I am looking for the ultimate compromise boat that's capacious, easy to trail, can be used on coastal waters for a bit of light sailing (learning the ropes as much as anything, have done a lot of crewing on other people's boat and a lot of motoring on my own), AND can be used for an occassional jaunt up the inland waterways.

I disregarded the Mac (prinicipally on build quality, but also becuase it's an ugly fecker!) but this thread is making me re-consider...
 
rr_123 said:
...I am looking for the ultimate compromise boat ...
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Compromise! The Mac26 is a vari-keel, water-ballasted, 30+ knot speed machine. Kind of a thinking man's Open 60.

Just driving through the moorings in one after hairing across the bay at 20 to 30 knots in 12 knots of true. The look of sheer respect on the potterers faces at one who has the skill and courage to handle such an uncompromising, out and out speed machine.
 
Hi Lee,
This wouldn't be you hareing out of Red Wharf bay 2 years ago would it?

Mcgregor.jpg


Sorry about the link, forum refuses to upload pics; "invalid url" it says, but I know it isn't.

Edit; found a better way of doing it- one that works, bloody silly forum s/w.
 
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Not much of a defence but

The man in the picture in the original post is my dad. I agree that conditions were probably outside the safe limits for the boat he was in, but then conditions do change when you are on the water, and he was motoring out from fishbourne creek when conditions started to change. The reason it was knocked over is that his dingy was blown from the deck and caught in the rigging. The centreboard was down and the ballast was empty, as directed for motoring close to shore in the guidance. He wasnt under sail and the sudden gust that caught the dingy broke the securing rope. All in all I would say he was more unlucky than stupid, but that would be my opinion. The boat itself was towed onto a sandbank and was bailed and righted by filling the ballast, without any further drama.
 
Tranona said:
This is all your personal opinion, which of course you are entitled to hold - but it is just that!

Boats are bought by adults who make their decisions based on the information they obtain. The average buyer would, I argue, be under no illusion that he is buying an all weather ocean going yacht if he buys a Macgregor.

So why do you keep trying to say he should not be allowed to buy one because you do not approve?
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I would suggest to you that people are making these comments because they have enough experience to know that this is not really the kind of boat you would go to sea in. If having gained the information you refer to and they believe the adverts & promo guff, & make such a decision then in my opinion they do not have enough experience to take a boat to sea.
 
Sandyman said:
I would suggest to you that people are making these comments because they have enough experience to know that this is not really the kind of boat you would go to sea in. If having gained the information you refer to and they believe the adverts & promo guff, & make such a decision then in my opinion they do not have enough experience to take a boat to sea.
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Sorry, you are making the same mistake as many others here by judging the boat against something it is not designed to do.

You talk about going to sea. This boat is designed and certified for sheltered waters (Category C) It is not designed for offshore or ocean use. Therefore anyone taking it "to sea" would likely be taking unnecessary risks.

I think it is patronising to criticise people for making their own informed decisions just because you don't like the product. Neither do I, but only because I want to "go to sea" in my boats. If I only wanted to sail in sheltered waters my choice may well be different.

It seems that the boat meets the requirements of a significant market. It is the largest selling boat of its size worldwide. There is no credible evidence of any safety issues so I really don't see any objective reason to criticise the boat or its owners.
 
Nick123 said:
The man in the picture in the original post is my dad. I agree that conditions were probably outside the safe limits for the boat he was in, but then conditions do change when you are on the water, and he was motoring out from fishbourne creek when conditions started to change. The reason it was knocked over is that his dingy was blown from the deck and caught in the rigging. The centreboard was down and the ballast was empty, as directed for motoring close to shore in the guidance. He wasnt under sail and the sudden gust that caught the dingy broke the securing rope. All in all I would say he was more unlucky than stupid, but that would be my opinion. The boat itself was towed onto a sandbank and was bailed and righted by filling the ballast, without any further drama.
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Thanks for the info Nick, I hope it hasn't put your Dad off. I have had dinghies "fly" & flip in F5 so I know what can happen when the wind gets under them. Getting that trapped in the shrouds would be the equivalent of the main sheet getting jammed with a couple of reefs in. Without ballast (& why would you want ballast if motoring with sails down?) you would have virtually no chance of preventing the capsize. Interesting to see how high out of the water she lies & to hear that she simply needed beaching, baling & reballasting to restore equalibrium. They do seem a pretty safe boat to me, but I might now be tempted to deflate & roll up the tender next time!!!
 
Searush,
We were actually in Wooton Creek when he went over- only boat that made our club rally, cos we went on Thursday!
Basic facts are;
Yep, no ballast plug out- local bloke from Wooton- only took it out to test the engine, as selling it.
The Ryde and Cowes IRBs took over the towing clear of the ferry channel by the RVYC chugger and had great fun most of that evening, righting it n pumping it out on the spit off Quarr Priory. RVYC towed it back in next hw. Mast and rigging looked like a pretzel!
The "funny" (as in sad, rather than amusing) part is that as he was going to sell it, we were told he'd cancelled the insurance just previous.

Nick, did he get the engine sorted ok before it started corroding, in the end- not running Sunday evening, and we left Monday am.

Next day, a Sunbeam was dismasted racing off Ryde and their IRB towed him in; took about 8 blokes to disentangle that one on the other side of the RVYC pontoon to us- we know cos we were making teas and coffees- real mess, getting the sails off was mega.

We sat on the verandah wondering wot would be towed in next that w/end.

In Paimpol at moment- some great music, but hard to get to sleep till they stop playing.
We are moored in a trot of 6 boats between two pontoon full of boats, only way ashore is by walking over our dinghy- gonna be real fun getting out on Monday morning- Westerly F3 f/cast-will pin the whole trot to the wall, and the inside boats are a Breton folk group, who need to get to another booking.Oh Boy, the scenes in the lock and harbour?
 
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For those of you who have never sailed a Mac carefull what you say. It is perfectly okay to have an opinion but terribly impolite to look at someone's ugly boat and tell him it's ugly...even if you think it's true!

For those of you who are afraid to sail in one..you'r welcome to have a few beer on mine when I'm on the sandbars.
078.jpg
[/IMG]
 
duncanmack said:
Thanks Tony for that brilliant photo. I haven't laughed so much for ages!
Especially fitting in this thread IMO.

The car driver forgot that cars should stay on the land but the boat can go in the water?
His launching technique requires some practice?
No one told him that the car shouldn't go in the water so he's going to sue their sorry ass?
The tide came in?
A technical hitch?
He's a feckwit?
"It's a 4x4 and so it can go anywhere"

The possibilities are almost endless, but whatever caused it his car is knackered.
Obviously cars should be fitted with a device that prevents idiots driving them into the water!
Perhaps prospective drivers should be given an intelligence test.
Or should they just be left to get on with it? :)

Anent the Macs - They have their place in the scheme of things and if used sensibly will perform justafine :)
Click to expand...

I know the story behind this photo.

They guy was backing his boat into the ramp and hit the gas instead of the brake and sent the rig into the water. I believe it was in Marina Del Ray California. The truck slid down and sank. The owner attached a cable to the trailer axle and a tow truck was pulling the rig out when this was taken.

The funny part was that the truck was borrowed from a friend. Never loan your truck to a friend with a boat.
 
flaming said:
Allow me to educate you.

http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html

Lot there to read but the key phrase is possibly...

"The boat's hybrid design uses a water tank on the bottom to provide stability. The tank should be filled when there are more than four people on board, MacGregor said. The tank on the boat driven July 4 by George Dean Martin was empty, according to the prosecutor in the case.

The boat has no visible warning about needing to fill the tank, said the driver's lawyer, Richard Rubin."

Looks like slightlydifferent circumstances in this case, as the "yachtsman" appears to have been alone, but the Mac 26 has a history of falling over.
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You sir are a "flaming" idiot.

Allow me to educate YOU oh wise one.

8 adults (many of whom were on the upper deck) and 3 children in a 26 foot boat sans proper ballast, drunk skipper decides to go wide open throttle. Yup, sounds like a bad design to me. Blame the boat, not the skipper. How many 26 foot boats would YOU put 8 adults topsides?

Let's legislate for stupidity and ban these boats. 30,000 of them and one drunken idiot kills some people, ban the boats. They are "death traps". Sounds right to me.
I wonder how many deaths have been on keel boats? Ban them too.

As I see it, this bloke in the original picture is alive and the boat is 80% above water despite the accident. That's a pretty safe looking boat to me. If he had the ballast in, this thread wouldn't exist.
 
US Sailing....

There are a LOT of Macs in the US - and they are all over Canada and Caribbean - a LOT more than 10K boats...

Sailing conditions wildly vary here. A lot of sailboats that you might find work well in the UK are not suitable for the wide variety of locations. Sailing on lakes at hull speed - and you hit a stump.... makes you think well of swing keels. Get hit by a MicroBurst - at 60-80 knots - coming out of nowhere - and you can find yourself flat on the water in a knockdown - and fully appreciative of the righting moment.

Offshore - close offshore - conditions of SoCal, Pacific Northwest, Bay Area, Down East, North Carolina, and Florida - are all pretty different. The Texas - North Florida coast has a lot of similarities. Lake sailing - from Texas - Tennessee - and the Great Lakes is different, too.

Very few sail boats do well in all these locations - Macs do well.

If you had been on Lake Texoma and suddenly see surreal thunderstorms rolling in (from Oklahoma) at you - at 60mph - you appreciate getting off the lake to a protected location - fast: A sunny, bright day - with sudden 40,000 wall clouds coming fast at you will get your attention. Sheet lightening hitting the ground - coming your way - is not something you want to be in.

We do have hurricanes in the Southern US. Surely you have seen pictures of traditional sailboats with fixed keels - piled up like cord-wood on roads, hotels, and on top of trees. If you have a Mac, you have likely pulled it out of the water and gone inland - on your trailer.

Very little of the "Mac disadvantages" matter in hurricane conditions. I also have a Hunter 37C that I am restoring. It was a Katrina boat and had masts, stanchions, and the rudder snapped off as it ROLLED over and over... The only real protection would have to have been OUT OF THE WATER - and someplace not subject to surge. Never mind the CE rating - did not matter.

*****************

You have not really mentioned the good side of Macs. They are affordable. You can easily work on them - people Mod them all the time. You DO NOT have bright work as a major part of life. You can go places and sail - that are IMPRACTICAL to do so in traditional sail boats... It is easy for me to consider sailing on Lake Michigan - and the Gulf of Mexico - without taking months to transit. An average person can trailer, maintain, and not have to pay expensive marina fees. Perhaps this should be in your discussion.

--jerry
 
I worked for the Navy and coastguard for many years designing boats and ships. In fact I worked on the 47' MLB for the US Coastguard which is a self righting boat.

First, I don't own a MacGregor but I know someone who does. These boats are quite stable. Most power boats can't do that much beyound 60 degrees. The number of capsize powerboats you find off the coast and even on the lakes will surprise the hell out of you. It is significant. Remember, this boat is a hybrid and takes on the characteristics of both. That said, with the ballast empty, it act's like a powerboat (in terms of stability). With the ballast full, it acts as a self righting sailboat. The center of gravity with the water ballast is pretty high up so it tends to heel sooner than others but it will get to a point where its characteristics are not any different than a keeled sailboat... to a point.

That said, The advantage of the keel is the degree of stability... in other words, a 6 foot long keel with a lead ballast at the end could go well beyond 90 degrees (I won't go into performance as this is a separate conversation). The closer the ballast is to the boat, the less that angle can be. But since this boat is not designed for a sea state of 5, there is no reason for the boat to heel over more than 90 or 100 degrees.

This boat is very popular in the US and probably used most often. There are three MacGregors at our lake and they are always in use. That is a lot more than I can say about other mariners here in the US. People like them because they can hook them up the their car and go to any lake they want. Since so many states are landlocked... this is an important feature to have on a sailboat. Would i cross the Atlantic on this boat... not a snowballs chance in hell. Would I sail it on a lake or in a bay. Sure! it looks like a fun little boat.

And for those of you are complaining about having to follow directions... Don't drive a car! Filling a water ballast is no more difficult than putting a seat belt on or making sure your tires/brakes are in good working order. Always know the limitations of the machine you are operating. If you can't handle that, than you desire what ever consequence that comes your way!
 
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2climbbig said:
I worked for the Navy and coastguard for many years designing boats and ships. In fact I worked on the 47' MLB for the US Coastguard which is a self righting boat.

First, I don't own a MacGregor but I know someone who does. These boats are quite stable. Most power boats can't do that much beyound 60 degrees. The number of capsize powerboats you find off the coast and even on the lakes will surprise the hell out of you. It is significant. Remember, this boat is a hybrid and takes on the characteristics of both. That said, with the ballast empty, it act's like a powerboat (in terms of stability). With the ballast full, it acts as a self righting sailboat. The center of gravity with the water ballast is pretty high up so it tends to heel sooner than others but it will get to a point where its characteristics are not any different than a keeled sailboat... to a point.

That said, The advantage of the keel is the degree of stability... in other words, a 6 foot long keel with a lead ballast at the end could go well beyond 90 degrees (I won't go into performance as this is a separate conversation). The closer the ballast is to the boat, the less that angle can be. But since this boat is not designed for a sea state of 5, there is no reason for the boat to heel over more than 90 or 100 degrees.

This boat is very popular in the US and probably used most often. There are three MacGregors at our lake and they are always in use. That is a lot more than I can say about other mariners here in the US. People like them because they can hook them up the their car and go to any lake they want. Since so many states are landlocked... this is an important feature to have on a sailboat. Would i cross the Atlantic on this boat... not a snowballs chance in hell. Would I sail it on a lake or in a bay. Sure! it looks like a fun little boat.

And for those of you are complaining about having to follow directions... Don't drive a car! Filling a water ballast is no more difficult than putting a seat belt on or making sure your tires/brakes are in good working order. Always know the limitations of the machine you are operating. If you can't handle that, than you desire what ever consequence that comes your way!
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whatever consequence comes your way, will not be cloaked in plain english, or common sense
 
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