Wightlink rescues MacGregor...
- Thread starter l'escargot
- Start date
mainmarine
Well-Known Member
He probably forgot to fill his ballast tanks if it was a MacGregor.
pragmatist
Well-Known Member
If I were you I would hide/remove this post immediately. One of the regulars pls remind me of the name of the troll who majored on his Macgregor a few years ago, including advocating ocean passages with it. You could be in for a major problem with this one 
curve
Well-Known Member
I wonder if Wightlink charged the skipper for his passage?
pendlecats
Well-Known Member
It should only be half to be fair.
I would agree no ballast looking at how high its riding, then stability is not their strong point - don't you agree
Searush
Well-Known Member
You can see the keel is up & the Outboard is down. Could the idiot have tried "motorsailing" it without ballast or keel? If so he has reaped exactly what he sowed.
Not my taste, but I have seen a Mac at speed & it is pretty impressive. The concept of a basic sailboat & a fast planing hull is interesting, even if it is not ideal at either. But one does need common sense to use it, it is not a good boat for a beginner, despite the marketing thrust clearly being aimed at people new to boating.
Not my taste, but I have seen a Mac at speed & it is pretty impressive. The concept of a basic sailboat & a fast planing hull is interesting, even if it is not ideal at either. But one does need common sense to use it, it is not a good boat for a beginner, despite the marketing thrust clearly being aimed at people new to boating.
Alfie168
Well-Known Member
The Mac does indeed give you the opportunity to sail/motor in unballasted condition. This is the most likely cause of the capsize.
The water ballast on my Dehler floods the tank whether you like it or not on launch using a one way ball valve. On recovery you pull a Tee handle which raises the ball..and out goes the water. It is a conventional yacht though, not a hybrid like the Mac, so none of that 18 knot stuff..except in my dreams overtaking ICAP Leopard.......
Tim
The water ballast on my Dehler floods the tank whether you like it or not on launch using a one way ball valve. On recovery you pull a Tee handle which raises the ball..and out goes the water. It is a conventional yacht though, not a hybrid like the Mac, so none of that 18 knot stuff..except in my dreams overtaking ICAP Leopard.......
Tim
Well I hate to say this but anybody that would go to sea in such a flat bottomed death trap deserves all they get or maybe they should just stick to golf!
It looks to me like the designer should stick to conservatories.
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
How have these things gotten a CE certification?????
I am gobsmacked that clearly these things can in effect fail into a unsafe condition....
A normal yacht is inherintley safe stability wise in a operator induced failure......Ie if you screw up the damn thing isnt going to capsize in a millpond.... versus if you make a simple mistake with the McGregor... ie fail to drop the keel... you are gonna end up on your head.
I find it gobsmacking that a craft of this nature can gain certification and be legl for sale in the UK.... Stability is probably the most important factor in small boat safety... and yet here is a craft which is inherintly Unstable and requires a active operator intervention to make it stable.....
Normally I am not keen on the nanny state... but given the nature of the boat.. (Ie it appeals to inexperienced operators..) surely this is bonkers???
I am gobsmacked that clearly these things can in effect fail into a unsafe condition....
A normal yacht is inherintley safe stability wise in a operator induced failure......Ie if you screw up the damn thing isnt going to capsize in a millpond.... versus if you make a simple mistake with the McGregor... ie fail to drop the keel... you are gonna end up on your head.
I find it gobsmacking that a craft of this nature can gain certification and be legl for sale in the UK.... Stability is probably the most important factor in small boat safety... and yet here is a craft which is inherintly Unstable and requires a active operator intervention to make it stable.....
Normally I am not keen on the nanny state... but given the nature of the boat.. (Ie it appeals to inexperienced operators..) surely this is bonkers???
Searush
Well-Known Member
Photodog
If used as intended, they are very safe. This owner appears to have completely ignored the basic principles of sailing. I reckon he might be an engineer, coz he sure as heck needs to RTFM, as all else has failed!
As to certification, you CANNOT legislate for idiots, that is a large part of what is wrong with the world today. We are trying to use H&S to protect people from their own foolishness - it just isn't possible to cover all the things idiots might do. The more we try, the less the able are allowed to do. Uffa Fox took an open ship's whaler to France & up the Seine with an crew of children in the 1930's. They had a great time & learned self-sufficiency, team work & seamanship. Despite no bouancy in the boat & only Kapok lifejackets (stuffed under seats & used as cushions/ pillows, no-one was lost or hurt.
But he wouldn't be allowed into France now as there would be no "certificate" for such a boat (yet Shackleton & Bligh made major Ocean passages in similar). Plus all the "Must wear Lifejackets" brigade would be howling & gnashing their teeth at the thought of it. A piece of paper marked "CE" is not really any use as a safety aid. I certainly wouldn't rely on it for an accurate assesment of my safety.
If used as intended, they are very safe. This owner appears to have completely ignored the basic principles of sailing. I reckon he might be an engineer, coz he sure as heck needs to RTFM, as all else has failed!
As to certification, you CANNOT legislate for idiots, that is a large part of what is wrong with the world today. We are trying to use H&S to protect people from their own foolishness - it just isn't possible to cover all the things idiots might do. The more we try, the less the able are allowed to do. Uffa Fox took an open ship's whaler to France & up the Seine with an crew of children in the 1930's. They had a great time & learned self-sufficiency, team work & seamanship. Despite no bouancy in the boat & only Kapok lifejackets (stuffed under seats & used as cushions/ pillows, no-one was lost or hurt.
But he wouldn't be allowed into France now as there would be no "certificate" for such a boat (yet Shackleton & Bligh made major Ocean passages in similar). Plus all the "Must wear Lifejackets" brigade would be howling & gnashing their teeth at the thought of it. A piece of paper marked "CE" is not really any use as a safety aid. I certainly wouldn't rely on it for an accurate assesment of my safety.
I resent this because I am an Engineer & presuming that RTFM means in effect reefing ;-) I have no problem with this in fact I consider myself more practical than most & certainly can understand the principles of buoyancy & being over canvassed in an essentially flat bottom boat with the probability of sudden loss of stability.
When I first saw one of those Macgreggors I thought what an abomination & my opinion holds firm.They are aimed at the inexperienced & the gullible.Potential death traps with the potential to do what photo dog has mentioned.Usher in more legislation for all of us.
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
Searush..
"I reckon he might be an engineer, coz he sure as heck needs to RTFM, as all else has failed!"
Hahahaha... thats very good!
"As to certification, you CANNOT legislate for idiots, that is a large part of what is wrong with the world today. We are trying to use H&S to protect people from their own foolishness"
I agree totally with what you are saying..... I also cant help but think that there comes a point on the stability curve were someone needs to step in and say... hmmm... thats a deathtrap!
I certainly do wonder how it gained certification... but doesnt this craft run counter to what any reasonable sailor would judge as being safe??
"I reckon he might be an engineer, coz he sure as heck needs to RTFM, as all else has failed!"
Hahahaha... thats very good!
"As to certification, you CANNOT legislate for idiots, that is a large part of what is wrong with the world today. We are trying to use H&S to protect people from their own foolishness"
I agree totally with what you are saying..... I also cant help but think that there comes a point on the stability curve were someone needs to step in and say... hmmm... thats a deathtrap!
I certainly do wonder how it gained certification... but doesnt this craft run counter to what any reasonable sailor would judge as being safe??
It occurs to me that yacht designers go to university to learn the principles of their art.How the hell did this particular designer get qualified?
Searush
Well-Known Member
Kristifer. I am a Chartered Engineer. RTFM is Read The Flippin' Manual. Us engineers are notorious for trying to do stuff without checking the available info, because we "understand the principles" . It was a joke.
He didn't have the keel down or any water ballast in (judging by how high out of the water it is floating). I don't know if the sails were up, but ANY sail up without keel or ballast would be lethal. Reefing is irrelevant. My guess is that he was motoring with keel up & no ballast (the only way it will get on the plane) and has done something daft like getting hit by a wash sideways on or puting a sail up.
He didn't have the keel down or any water ballast in (judging by how high out of the water it is floating). I don't know if the sails were up, but ANY sail up without keel or ballast would be lethal. Reefing is irrelevant. My guess is that he was motoring with keel up & no ballast (the only way it will get on the plane) and has done something daft like getting hit by a wash sideways on or puting a sail up.
Ah yes read the manuel I see what you mean.I got the impression from looking at that second photo down that he has got the sail up but I may be wrong looking at it again.
Anyway the thing looks like a box & I would guess sails like one.Any owners of such a contaption should be saved from themselves!lol
Anyway the thing looks like a box & I would guess sails like one.Any owners of such a contaption should be saved from themselves!lol
colvic987
Well-Known Member
Just amazed how boxy it looks, not a good characteristic sailing profile, maybe it should be certified only for the municipal boating lake.
It gives me shudders thinking of the boat accident of a couple of years ago just off puffin island, north wales, with loss of life, another mis certified boat...
chasroberts
Well-Known Member
I think with that comment you've just justified the whole UK H&S industry. Now then, don't get too upset when the same industry does something you DON'T agree with....
(Ducks head below parapet.....)
Tranona
Well-Known Member
There are many small boats that capsize. The important thing is that they stay stable and do not invert or sink.
The Macgregor is certified in category C which is estuary and coastal. So the boat in question was being used in an appropriate situation.
You have no idea from the photos why it capsized - only making up your own explanation.
As far as I know there have been no reports of people losing their lives in a Macgregor so they cannot be called death traps.
Not my idea of a good boat, but they fulfil a need for quite a wide range of users.
D
DogWatch
Guest
In fairness, it looks no more boxy than say a mirror dinghy... ah but they are tippy. As for Ocean or even offshore in a boat that will go over like that if you push it, no thankee; and I drive a catamarangue
Anyhoo, you'd have thought the weight of barnacles on the bottom would have been enough to add much needed stability, prolly why the guy was motor-sailing, maybe didn't understand why it was maxxed at 2 knts. Would being grippy like that add to instability do you think?
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flaming
Well-Known Member
Allow me to educate you.
http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html
Lot there to read but the key phrase is possibly...
"The boat's hybrid design uses a water tank on the bottom to provide stability. The tank should be filled when there are more than four people on board, MacGregor said. The tank on the boat driven July 4 by George Dean Martin was empty, according to the prosecutor in the case.
The boat has no visible warning about needing to fill the tank, said the driver's lawyer, Richard Rubin."
Looks like slightlydifferent circumstances in this case, as the "yachtsman" appears to have been alone, but the Mac 26 has a history of falling over.