Wife Swap

[jfm]

Right wing rant - deserving riches

Oldgit:
1. You can clothe and feed an extra kid for £70 a week. Housing is irrelevant, because already provided. The benefit per extra kid should reflect the extra costs of the kid, no more. £70 sounds about right.

2. Welfare benefit should imho be the minimum needed. It is a safety net and it is not fair on those who pay it for it to provide more then the mimimum needed. Any more than the bare mimium and benefit becomes a desirable thing, which is the wrong way to run a country that needs people to be productive.

3. And so it is not right to compare child benefit to what a rich person might spend on a chelsea tractor. Driving a chelsea tractor is something that should only be accessible to those who make money to do it, not to those on welfare.

This sounds a bit right wing I guess but it's not meant to be. What I'm saying is that benefits need to be bare mimnimum only, not luxury, in order to create the right incentives to make people be productive. Remeber also that many of the chelsea tracotr drivers work damned hard to get that tractor. Rich people are often slagged off for being rich. Yet it is generally true that most of what rich people have is a direct result of (a) their working harder (both currently and in earlier school/study life) than those at the poorer end of the scale; and (b) their taking greater risk - if you invest say several hundred £grand of borrowed money in a business you deserve some of the pay off when it comes in. It is not that most rich people just got lucky and were born with silver spoon, most times they actually deserve it and they had similar opportunities to others who chose to work less and be risk-averse etc.

All imho

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[hlb]

Re: Right wing rant - deserving riches

Whats a Chelsea tractor and would I like one??

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[Duster]

It seems an incredible amount of money to me, for doing sod all . Rough fag packet maths -it takes to total income tax and national insurance contributions from THREE of us who work all year to earn £37k each.
mikej

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[Duster]

It seems an incredible amount of money to me, for doing sod all . Rough fag packet maths -it takes the total income tax and national insurance contributions from THREE of us who work all year to earn our £37k each to provide their £37k.
mikej

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[clyst]

Why the 8 kids????? they should be penalised (is there a pun in there??) for having so many. Never heard of contraception?? Must have been p--sed each time anyway. Makes my bloody blood boil !!!!!

P.S Anybody noticed the similarity between her and Harry Enfield's WAYNETTA ????

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by clyst on 08/10/2003 20:59 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[jfm]

Re: Right wing rant - deserving riches

I haven't a clue Haydn. I guessed he meant a Porsche or big spensive 4x4 as seen quite a lot in Chelsea, but I dunno.

Mikej and Clyst are dead right about spongers. No-one should get 37k a year for doing sod all. They should get a bare minimum an amount that borders on hardship. We need a welfare system that encourages people to be producers. And I don't mean 8 kids

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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Unfortunately with the UK demography the way it is, 8 kids is actually a blessing to the state if all 8 work from leaving school.

I am afraid that their role model will show them that they do not need to, so will also burden the state, it costs a fair amount to imprison someone nowdays.

My biggest problem with this situation, as someone who has never signed on, and never been out of work of some kind, when I do need it I will probably be below the breadline because I will not know how to get all benefits I am entitled to, I will go into debt, and prolly end up in a situation where going back to work will leave me homeless.

It is a mad state of affairs; and yet these people will point and call me rich as I have a boat etc. yet as we all know this causes the opposite to apply, but if I say anything out loud about those on long term benefits (not the true medically retired etc) I am regarded as fasist and neo nazi.

yes Tabloid ethics is ripe everywhere.

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk/TC_IrishCruise_2003_00.html>Irish Cruise</A>

 

[Neraida]

Re: Right wing rant - deserving riches

What about those who have paid tens and hundreds of thousands of pounds in tax and NI only to receive the 'bare minimum' when for whatever reason their luck turns the other way. Surely if contributing for years in tax, NI etc, people who need some back up till they sort themselves out in the event that they need to find another source of income should be able to function properly. The 'minimum' don't pay for much at all, even for those whose housing and bills are supplemented.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.quest-net.org/jamesaustin/images/Img1094.JPG> Recognise us? </A>

 

[jfm]

Re: Right wing rant - deserving riches

Good point. i can see much fairness in a system which gives more generous unemployment to those who have previously paid in shed loads of tax, and just the bare minimum to those who haven't. Excellent idea imho. I suspect the wife swap people might be in the latter category though happy to be proved wrong on that.

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[tcm]

Slightly more right wing rant - deserving riches

A safety net catches the fall. Then, you get off the safety net and have another go. You can't loll about in a safety net. Other people might fall too. So in the same way, all benefits should "time out". So that after six months (say) they fall to zero. After that you'd have to move, or sell house or readjust somehow. Not continue to hang about the house/flat/dole office (annual rent for dole office = £100k-500k btw) in (frexample) South wales waiting for mining jobs to come up when in reality - they won't. Currently, we pay (= encourage) people not to work, and we especially pay them for a long long time in areas where there is no work. There are loads and loads of jobs. Loads of companies advertising for peeps, and not just macdonalds. Mind you at 5 quid an hour that's 250 quid a week fairly easily. Even (decentish) cleaners round here get 7 quid an hour. For newcomers to the job market (i.e. teenagers etc) it is fairly weird to find that you get money for eer and ever if you lose your job, or just never get one. Trade unions would go mental, of course, but remember, they were designed to support workers. Not "not-workers". If you get in a cab in London, these days, expect quite a few to live in Devon and work as a cabbie in London 4 days a week. There are loads and loads and loads of jobs, so no reason at all to pay people to not do a job.

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[burgundyben]

Re: Slightly more right wing rant - deserving riches

quite right, the best way to reduce un-employment would be to reduce "un-employment benefit" - they'd soon find a way of earning a living

when I took my career break several friends asked if i was claiming any money from the gov't, I sez nope, that's monies for the people that need it, all friends said rubbish, bunch of free loaders who cant be arsed to work, its your money, you paid it in NI and tax 'ave some back, so I went off to see em, explained, dont want a job, having a break, but would like some cash pls, after a bit of wrangling they agreed to pay me, cant remember, bout 50 quid a week I think it was, anyway, it bought a decent dinner once a week, so eventually they would have paid my mortgage and council tax, could have picked up some work cahs in hand and been reasonably comfortable, so as you say, not much incentive to work.

We need a right wing govt for force the country back into a stronger work ethic.

<hr width=100% size=1>Sod the Healey - I think I'll buy an E-Type.

 

[jfm]

Re: Slightly more right wing rant - deserving riches

Quite right. When I said "i can see much fairness in a system which gives more generous unemployment to those who have previously paid in shed loads of tax" I meant for just a period, perhaps 4-6 months or suchlike, Then it has to fall to minimum, and yes, later on to zero perhaps.

You are quite right that there are loads of jobs. 2 weeks ago SWMBO booked 2 nice chaps to cut all hedges etc in our garden and take branches away and tidy place up for £300. All fine. Yesterday they rang to apologise politely that they cannot do it because been hired for a bigger job and no more free slots in their diary. All fine, no argument with them, no big deal. Last week, we made a secretary work late past midnite in office. Took 30mins ringing round to find a car to drive her home to Southend (a £130 fare) and then she had to wait an hour, becuase all night limos sold out. And try getting a good builder. Point is, there is lots of work if get out and about.

In this country we have people wanting to buy stuff and people sitting around making £37k pa or whatever not selling it. We need a big rework of the welfare system

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[oldgit]

left wing reasoning.

Unfortunately did not see programme,so fully able to comment of course.
Prepared to quess that to boost figuires high enuff to get a bit of apoplexy from certain viewers, that costs of providing house/rates/bus passes to get kids to school etc etc has been added to actual dosh received to achieve desired effect.Perhaps if this was factored out,the amount available would be somewhat less to feed and clothe the brood.
As for a only certain section of the community working harder than the rest.
Might suggest that there are quite a few people out there who work just as hard doing some very unpleasant jobs for not a lot of money.
Takes all sorts to make the world go round and I will not begrudge a chum able to spend 125k on his first boat or that family with 10 mouths to feed on 38k or whatever a year.Still if it diverts Mail readers from the Blackpool debacle./forums/images/icons/laugh.gif


<hr width=100% size=1>If it aint broke fix it till it is.

 

[oldgit]

Re: no night transport

Many of the the licenced cab drivers we deal with will simply not work at night due to fears for personal safety.Mainly from young people to drunk to realise the grief they are causing this is usually young men,but can be also young ladies.

<hr width=100% size=1>If it aint broke fix it till it is.

 

[BarryH]

Re: left wing reasoning.

If you really want to see the prog its on again tonite ch4 at about 11.30 ish i think. I'll still be wobbling back from the pub, the wife bought me a new set of batteries for my bike lamps.

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[EME]

Re: left wing reasoning.

My views on this issue should really be sub judice. I have spent most of my life working in a blue ship environment....heads down arse up as it were . yet I KNEW as a lifelong paid-up Labourite that I could do more for 'everyone else'. Facts are as far I'm concerned that Britain now sucks. It is neither fish nor fowl. JFM is right ..if you wanna make a bob or two . you can. Yet, the lower middle classes continue to aspire to some panacea which is more Trotsky than Lenin.

I have chosen to be of 'No Fixed Abode'... still a good socialist. but Britain's system sucks. The pauper of the developed world. No service but high cost. I base my judgement entirely on the EC and US. We are nowhere, and I don't like it.

All obviously IMHO as a former UK taxpayer who has no wish to be part in the future tax(high cost)/poor service ( you all understand that) on offer from each incompetent party.


<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue>I am WHAT I say I am</font color=blue>

 

[oldgit]

Re:Bit late.

As like to be abed by 10 pm.Will force myself not to watch.Need to work on the other 8 kids I now need for a decent income.Jus off to speak to the wife.OUCH OUCH.

<hr width=100% size=1>If it aint broke fix it till it is.

 

[oldgit]

Re:Hmm.

Can only comment on personal experience.
Nice new house.
Business doing OK
All my chums companies are profitable enough for them to buy new houses/cars/boats/holidays etc.(all can whinge for england tho.)
Nice new bridge coming along soon to match nice new road recently built to improve my access to everywhere.
Nice new hospital built just down road.
O yes and happy to pay the tax to keep it all moving along.
Bit like heaven really.


<hr width=100% size=1>If it aint broke fix it till it is.

 

[oldgit]

Re:Hmm.

Can only comment on personal experience.
Boat not cost me any money recently./forums/images/icons/laugh.gif
Nice new house.
Business doing OK
All my chums companies are profitable enough for them to buy new houses/cars/boats/holidays etc.(all can whinge for england tho.)
Nice new bridge coming along soon to match nice new road recently built to improve my access to everywhere.
Nice new hospital built just down road.
O yes and happy to pay the tax to keep it all moving along.
Bit like heaven really.


<hr width=100% size=1>If it aint broke fix it till it is.

 

[EME]

Re:Hmm.

Didn't appreciate you lived in France....

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue>I am WHAT I say I am</font color=blue>