Why the hell would anyone want to go to Spain

Jez,

As a new person moving down to Spain I panicked at all this and moved to Gibraltar instead! Mind you we pay Tax of 12% on all boats...but no VAT! Problem is if you have already paid VAT like me then you pay the 12% as well...

You live where you want and pay the taxes! Anywhere is better than the UK at the moment!!!

Paul /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Too right. I've posted before that if the Balearics govt get similar ideas, I'll take my tourist Euros some other place. What with the property collapse in Spain and this kind of story, Spain is shooting itself in the foot big time. With 3m unemployed and rising, you'd think they'd be begging us to come
 
The only people to have shot Spain in the feet are the greedy Europeans (brits) who brought over there cash when the times were good and set about a feeding frenzy on property thus causing property prices to accelerate beyond beleif.

Now that the visitors are struggling having over extended their financial status the market is correctign itself ( I understand that this too is happening in the UK).

The authorities whilst they do like to collect the old dinero do so from people that generally should be paying it.

So I say if you should be paying tax pay it. Dont hide behind an excuse of i didnt know. this is not aimed at individuals but the masses that feel they should not pay their way.
 
Bollox. Do you really think it's right that the local govt are reclaiming foreshore land from Empuriabrava marina berth holders who have bought those berths freehold and why should foreign boat owners pay a 12% tax when no other EU country applies this tax? Actually it doesn't matter what you think or whether it's right or wrong, the upshot is that it will discourage visiting tourists which damages the Spanish economy and leads to even more unemployment so it is an unbelievably stupid thing to do in the present climate. As I say, if the Balearic govt shows any sign whatsoever of doing a similar thing, I'll take the €30-40k I spend there every year some place else like Italy or Greece
As for the property feeding frenzy, this was not fuelled by greedy Europeans but by greedy Spanish banks willing to lend to anybody wanting to buy a property and by greedy developers borrowing far too much money to throw up thousands of properties that, in the end, nobody wanted. If there is economic hardship in Spain, the Spaniards can only blame themselves
 
If you look at the history of this tax, it does seem a little unfair. When Spain joined the EU's VAT system, a 28% so-called 'luxury tax' that applied to things like boats was outlawed. It was replaced with VAT at 16%.

Somewhat irked by this loss of revenue, the Spanish authorities invented a brand new 'matriculation tax' and set it at 12%, cleverly taking the total of the two taxes back up to 28%.
 
Mike sorry you feel the need to use strong lanuguage it is only a debate here.

I would like to highlight your point "discourage visiting tourists " The people being affected by this 12% tax are NOT tourists, they are deeemed residents because they are in the country for more than 183 nights in any one year. End of story.

Whether or not any other EU countries implement such a tax is irrelevant, as we live in a free community we have the right to move around. Who is to say that France wont enforce such a law in the future?

A further point about the tax is that the Europeans set a guideline this can be interpreted by each individual country as they see fit.

The property boom here was certainly exasperated by greedy Europeans arriving by the aeroplane loads buying cheap properties off plan to sell at a vast profit before property was finished. I accept that the banks and developers exploited this situation who wouldnt. The goose is now cooked however and everyone is suffering.

Now your point about the land grab I cannot defend nor will I, it stinks, we all know that. The solution is! I know not.
 
No, not end of story. Whatever these people are who have been hit with this 12% tax, they are tourists in the sense that they bring money into a country whilst being in that country for recreational purposes. Maybe they're not 2 weeks in Benidorm bucket and spade merchants but they spend their money in Spain, just the same. In any case, as I said, this kind of stuff just discourages foreigners from spending their time and money in Spain and that is detrimental to the Spanish economy. Period
 
[ QUOTE ]
Who is to say that France wont enforce such a law in the future?

[/ QUOTE ]
I think they have something similar although nothing like 12% but it is every year. I hope Wn51 doesn't mind me lifting his thread from "The Liveaboards"

"In France you have to pay a tax each year for a French registered boat. If you are resident in France and have a foreign registered boat, you have to pay a "passeport" each year for your boat. This is an amount which is equal to the tax for a French registered boat. It ranges from 92 euros for 7-8m up to 573 euros for 12-15m and 1108 euros for more than 15m. I think if the boat is over 24m there are special rules.
Then there is an additional fee depending on the French fiscal CV of the engine (as there used to be for cars). This ranges from 13 euros per CV to 57.96 euros per CV for big engines. A normal yacht engine of about 2 litres capacity (CVs are proportional to cylinder capacity - nothing to do with power) will be about 8 CV (which just falls into the 13 euros per CV category). These taxes are per year.

A lot of french people register their boats in Belgium. There the rules about required equipment (liferafts, flares, radio etc) and qualifications to drive are considerably more lax (or pabe even non existent). I also suspect that they may escape the "passeport" for some time.

Different country, different rules.
The UK counts as a tax haven in many peoples eyes!!! "
 
When I was in the MN I did not pay UK tax if I spent less than 183days in UK waters or on UK land.

Can't see the difference, in this case either, if you live long term in a country you should expect to pay the local taxes.

However I do expect lots of new tax grabbing hitting the UK from our Scottish lad in charge to pay for his lack of attention to basics during his watch as chancellor.

Brian


Can't see the difference if some
 
There is a litany of problems that can, without any argument, be viewed as retrospective trap doors, through which you are forced to fall. Land-grab, house (villa) destruction, dodgy inheritance claims, dodgy taxes, dodgy local officials, incomparable and incomprehensible regional law differences and so on. They all make Spain a poor choice to invest or live. Nice for a holiday, but hell otherwise.
 
Deleted User - if they stay in Spain for longer than 183 nights they are not tourists simple fact that you have to accept.

Just because they are foreign it doesnt mean they are tourists.

How do you feel about people living in the UK and not paying their taxes, I would assume this is unacceptable to you. There is no difference.

Dave S, exactly how long have you lived in Spain? I am keen to know what you base your point on Spain being not a nice place to live.

I can assure you it is better than Morroco and certainly more accomodating than France.

IMO
 
Few reasons - images taken in Sant Carles on seperate days last week:

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Your comparison with the UK is not appropriate. The HMRC falls over itself to negotiate favourable tax treatment with foreigners in order to encourage them to remain in the UK and spend their wealth here. Spain seems to be pursuing the opposite strategy by imposing taxes on them which will drive them away. You can call them tourists, residents or whatever but they're going to take their money elsewhere. Brilliant strategy in the present climate. Absolutely brilliant
 
Yep John

And those pics taken whilst the whole of the UK was under several inches of snow.

BTW Sant Carles is comeing together much quicker than I ever thought.
Great boat in the first shot though /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
From Port Vell bearing say 237 your about 86Nm away from Sant Carles - so it should take you around 4 hours!

You will easily get a visitors berth and lots of local restaurants and facilities open even at this time of year!

You can email English speaking staff at the marina office as follows:

Office administrator:
Serena Coe [s.coe@mdlmarinas.co.uk]

Or

Marina General Manager:
Neil Salter (n.salter@mdlmarinas.co.uk)

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Thought you might like that shot! I like the second one....

Yes its coming together very well: Easy access new fuel berth almost complete with fuel already in the tanks! MDL said they are just arranging some hi-tech connections that will enable self-service credit card operation of the fuel pumps all monitored from the marina office (although he said he would prefer it to be manned in case of fuel spills and the like).

Cant wait to get Buster anti-fouled, first trip I fancy to the small Columbretes island group about 40 miles away or say 31Nm if you want to hop down the coast a bit to Burriana first!

Anyone been there yet?
 
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