Why only guard wire on yachts?

[Bloater]

SWMBO asked me the other day why sailing yachts only have guard wire yet motorboats have solid railings. I couldn't give her an authoritive answer.

I'm convinced that it can't be cost as even the most expensive sailing yachts have guard wire. Does anyone know the answer?

 

[grumpy_o_g]

One of the reasons behind guard wire is so you can cut the lashings holding it taut to get it out of the way for recovering and MOB. Not sure what MoBo's do - swim platform or maybe the assumption is you're less likely to fall overboard in the first place (which is probably valid).

 

[Poignard]

Unless the yacht was very large, solid rails would look even worse than wires, and they spoil the look of a boat as it is.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

It may be tradition. Many sailing yachts didn't have any safety rail fitted whereas motor yachts were constructed with a rail, being larger than sailing yachts to accommodate boilers and steam engines. When a sailing yacht required lifelines they were rigged with rope. This practice may have translated to guard rails when they became common on sailing yachts. Alternatively, early sailing yacht design had low booms and low freeboard, so the use of guard rails was not possible as running rigging would foul the rails. Some modern sailing yachts do have solid guard rails.

 

[Seajet]

Pelican Hooks !

I'd suggest sailing boats are more familiar with avoiding windage, having to work with nature rather than try to pretend it can be overcome !

The argument for lashings at guardwire ends used to be that an all-metal link around the boat would cause 'quadrantal error', upsetting RDF.

That is no longer the case, and I can never understand why pelican hooks ( the chunky Gibb stainless type ) aren't virtually standard.

I use mine every time I get in or out of the tender, and when alongside pontoons ( with a bit of care the upper guardrails can be taken back on themselves, so still tensioned for fenders to hang onto ).

If there is a MOB and lashings are cut, the boat is left with no guardrails on at least one side, in what may well be bad conditions where it would be folly to be on deck or even at leeward cockpit side trying to re-lace a fiddly line !

Pelican hooks are available in two types, ones which are swaged onto the wire at the riggers', or those with an eye to shackle onto the eye in the wire; both require judgement to achieve tension on the wire when closed ( they have an 'over-centre' effect ), the shackle on type probably being easier as one can play with various shackles.

 

[Ripster]

Some yachts do have railings just like mobos but generally the larger ones. I always thought it was to do with weight. The wires will do the job just as well as a railing but are lighter.

 

[Erik C]

Some yachts do have railings just like mobos but generally the larger ones. I always thought it was to do with weight. The wires will do the job just as well as a railing but are lighter.

The Amel 55 for example.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

That is no longer the case, and I can never understand why pelican hooks ( the chunky Gibb stainless type ) aren't virtually standard.

When I first got my boat and had all the wires replaced the rigger more or less refused to fit pelican hooks. I took his advice and kept the lashings. I'm still not convinced though.

 

[prv]

Looks. You do see solid metal railings occasionally, often on home-built world-girdlers. It usually looks ugly.

Pete

 

[Slowtack]

Solid rails would probably not work as well for racing boats when the crew need to sit out. Not sure the added weight of solid rails would add much in terms of extra safety. Also the rails would be a hindrance when lifting on crane slings.

 

[Seajet]

When I first got my boat and had all the wires replaced the rigger more or less refused to fit pelican hooks. I took his advice and kept the lashings. I'm still not convinced though.

I would love to know his reason behind that !

Have had Gibb pelican hooks for over 10 years, used every time I go to & from my mooring and when climbing aboard in winter...

True some people mistakenly use tiny feeble brass piston hooks - intended for old dinghy spinnaker poles etc - as a cheapskate option, very silly as the brass pin they're relying on is about 2 x 5mm ! But I can't imagine a rigger was thinking of those.

Maybe it was because calculating the length of the wires is a pain, I got round it by dipping into a pile of 'just in case' shackles, others add bottlescrews but I think that unecessary if one is prepared to try.

 

[prv]

others add bottlescrews but I think that unecessary if one is prepared to try.

The usual kind of pelican hooks have a bottle-screw-like thread built into them. Ends up fairly neat, I think, if you have the matching screw fitting swaged onto the wires.

Pete

 

[Woodlouse]

I would love to know his reason behind that !

Have had Gibb pelican hooks for over 10 years, used every time I go to & from my mooring and when climbing aboard in winter...

True some people mistakenly use tiny feeble brass piston hooks - intended for old dinghy spinnaker poles etc - as a cheapskate option, very silly as the brass pin they're relying on is about 2 x 5mm ! But I can't imagine a rigger was thinking of those.

Maybe it was because calculating the length of the wires is a pain, I got round it by dipping into a pile of 'just in case' shackles, others add bottlescrews but I think that unecessary if one is prepared to try.

Pelican hooks are good for a gate within the guard rails. But I don't see the point in securing the ends of the guard rails with them. That is much better done with lashings, or perhaps light bottle screws in order to achieve the required tension.

 

[Seajet]

Pelican hooks are good for a gate within the guard rails. But I don't see the point in securing the ends of the guard rails with them. That is much better done with lashings, or perhaps light bottle screws in order to achieve the required tension.

Woodlouse,

I take it you either didn't read or disagree with my earlier post re. lashings being an unecessary anachronism, leaving the boat dangerously without guardrails on at least one side if they are cut for MOB recovery; that is the point.

Using lashings or bottlescrews to achieve wire tension is either laziness or being cheapskate !

 

[LittleSister]

Another dimension to fixed guardrails is that if you bash them it can cause either (a) an awful lot of damage, or (b) bends and dents in the rails that can never be quite straightened.

That said, a friend has high-ish solid guardrails on his boats and it is a real boon in all sorts of ways (unless you are towing another heavy boat alongside and a ferry passes close at speed!) - climbing onto the boat, tying all sorts of things in place temporarily or permanently, and vastly more likely to keep you on board if you fall against them.

 

[Woodlouse]

Woodlouse,

I take it you either didn't read or disagree with my earlier post re. lashings being an unecessary anachronism, leaving the boat dangerously without guardrails on at least one side if they are cut for MOB recovery; that is the point.

Using lashings or bottlescrews to achieve wire tension is either laziness or being cheapskate !

I would not cut the lashings on the guard rails under any circumstance. I agree the original reason for using lashings, that it interfered with RDF reception, is now obsolete. As I said, I would use pelican clips for a gate in the guard rails but for securing the ends I would either use bottle screws or lashings. It's simpler and yes, cheaper.

Anyway, if you should cut the lashings on your guard rails then it's not rocket science to get a bit of string and retie them.

 

[Seajet]

I would not cut the lashings on the guard rails under any circumstance. I agree the original reason for using lashings, that it interfered with RDF reception, is now obsolete. As I said, I would use pelican clips for a gate in the guard rails but for securing the ends I would either use bottle screws or lashings. It's simpler and yes, cheaper.

Anyway, if you should cut the lashings on your guard rails then it's not rocket science to get a bit of string and retie them.

So, what do you do about MOB recovery ?

Also good luck trying to re-lash guardwires in what may well be seriously heavy weather !

 

[Woodlouse]

So, what do you do about MOB recovery ?

Also good luck trying to re-lash guardwires in what may well be seriously heavy weather !

MOB recovery I'd either open the gate in the guard rails, that do have pelican clips, or I'd drag them under neath the guard rails, or hoist them over the top on a halyard. It depends on the situation really.

As for relashing them, I've already said I wouldn't cut the lashings. But the rails are within easy reach of the cockpit and it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Seajet]

Anyway, if you should cut the lashings on your guard rails then it's not rocket science to get a bit of string and retie them.

Both that and your reckoning you can arrange a MOB to your gate has me thinking you are one of lifes' eternal optimists, good luck !

Seajet out.

 

[Woodlouse]

Anyway, if you should cut the lashings on your guard rails then it's not rocket science to get a bit of string and retie them.

Both that and your reckoning you can arrange a MOB to your gate has me thinking you are one of lifes' eternal optimists, good luck !

Seajet out.

How is it optimism? The boat is only 35' so the most I'd have to drag a MOB to get him to the gate is 5 metres. Chances are I'd still drag them underneath though. Doesn't matter where they are then.

I'm amazed you consider lashing a guardwire to be such an incredible chore.