Why MoBoing is dying on its feet. ?

I think people have missed the point here as there are several factors in play which have been broadly overlooked; and the first one is the mind set of the younger generation which is money, money, money.

Why would you spend £500,000 on a boat for you and your wife, husband, partner (note the PC element) when you can get a property abroad for the same money and the property can give you an income (money again) almost instantly with a property for which you can appoint an agent who will undertake all the works required to run your property for, and as a source of income. Meanwhile you and your boat are generally used only by you and yours as and when you get the time to enjoy it as many rarely leave the marina and often viewed as a status symbol.

Property is an appreciating asset which can also generate an income by renting it out for a lot of the year not just to cover its costs, but for profits; meanwhile your boat is a depreciating asset which also has overheads, a berth, shore power, an internet connection and it all costs money when it is in the marina, and even more money if you take the boat out several times a year and apart from recouping a little if you can rent your berth when it isn't in use it is all outgoings. Cheap flights from most of the world to most of the world mean travel is easy and cheap and runs fairly well to schedule and you can take a taxi to the airport, or pre book a long stay car parking space and hop on your flight to your destination airport and either be collected or jump in a taxi to your holiday rental for your annual holiday.

If we factor in package holidays which are all inclusive (could think of nothing worse) then you have paid for your holiday and have little to no outgoings and you don't even have to leave the hotel where you can be fissed as a part by mid morning and sleep it off all afternoon and wake up in time for the evenings drinking session and listen to a singer who cannot sing or deal with the other entertainment they offer.

From this perspective things are changing, and remember mind set.

People are getting into boating and this appears to be more the towable boats they can keep at home where they have no marina fees or other expenses and they can work on their boats at their leisure and they can hitch them to the family vehicle with minimal cost difference, apart from slightly increased wear on their vehicles and a little increased fuel consumption while they tow their boats and they have little expense apart from having to pay slip fees when launching their boats, their running costs are a fraction of an average £500,000 boat and this puts them within reach of many people who could not afford £500,000 for a boat let alone the mooring fees and regular work these larger boats require to keep them in good condition.

Here things are changing radically.

Next traditional boating is coming under attack from smaller craft such as jet skis as they are cheap to buy, cheap to run, and they also have the hooligan element which appeals to the youngsters as they can buy and run a pick up instead of a car, put a couple of jet skis on the bed, and still have a crew cab vehicle which will carry 5 people, they often have no launching fees and can be easily dragged across a beach so the youngsters do not even have to take a trailer test to put their jet skis onto a trailer.
 
I think we boat because we have an emotional attachment to the water and to boats. A quick perusal of this forum shows it’s not always fun or easy, but like all relationships it takes dedication. Where do we get this sense of the sea? Is it our island heritage, our history, Noel Coward films. Every country and every coastline has their own story. The question is do young people have this feeling in their blood anymore. Sure being towed at great speed is part of the extreme sport generation but self propelled wakeboards are soon going to make the towing boat obsolete.
 
I don't think motor boating is dying.
Used boats seem to sell for about the same money or a bit less than they did ten years ago - which means they have reduced in price in real terms and are more affordable in theory . The same with diesel - the price is not far off the same as it was ten year ago.
Used boat sales at the marina where I keep my boat seem lively with only a very few boats hanging around unsold.
The marina seems pretty full.
However new boat sales have always been rare in our area - there are still plenty of good used boats available at considerably less cost.


Fuel prices per litre over last few years, not marina prices but from club and commercial outlets.
2003 28p
2004 29p
2005 42p
2008 77p
2009 65p
2011 60p
2011 1.11p (MDL Windsor) :(
2015 75p
2018 90p
 
Last edited:
Fuel prices per litre over last few years, not marina prices but from club and commercial outlets.
2003 28p
2004 29p
2005 42p
2008 77p
2009 65p
2011 60p
2011 1.11p (MDL Windsor) :(
2015 75p
2018 90p

2018 compared to 2008 price is a 17% increase
If we say 2% inflation over 10 years compounded thats a 22% increase (Google says it was 25% inflation over 10 years)
Therefore in real terms diesel is now cheaper than it was in 2008
 
For me, I think it's a generation gap, led by recession and emigration. In my area, i'm certainly the exception, rather than the rule.

Let me give you an example...
I'm based on a lake in the West of Ireland.
When the generation above me (and then some) got into boating, they were maybe late 20's / early 30's ... these are the end of the die hards.

When I got proper hooked on boating (in my early 20's when I could afford to buy my own, rather than borrowing my fathers), I was in a lucky situation with work so could afford to buy boats. Whereas the majority of people my age should be joining me, instead emigrated, or were out of work (or never got into work).

To me, I felt almost odd. My first 'big' boat was a Zaffiro 34 which I bought when I was about 24 (IIRC). I then bought the Smeraldo 37 when I was approx. 26. A lot of my peers were either looking for work or in Australia.

I really hope that those who couldn't buy boats, or were in another continent at the time return.... and buy boats :)

I do agree above post re. money money money.... 'young lads' like I are generally looking for investments, or something they can make a quick buck on. When it comes to boating, I don't care.... When I bought the Smeraldo 37 I wrote the money off and just thought "time to have fun, again!"
 
Last edited:
THere is an underlying assumption no one has money. The statistics say we are getting richer not poorer and please beleive me there are plenty of people with plenty of money.

There is no sign to me it is dying. Would I keep a boat in the uk ? Never. That is a separate but relevant issue. I cannot see anyone saying hey kids great news we re going to Southampton for our holidays..... having said that I am in Mallorca now and whilst uk has a heat wave Mallorca has 5 days of rain forecast !
 
Last edited:
I disagree as nobody has made an assumption that nobody has any money, we have to understand that times have changed and that people also have more money, but we also have to understand the difference between money and disposable income. Many people actually have less money as they have more asset value and while you can have an asset that doesn't translate into disposable income for a boat.
 
Mallorca has 5 days of rain forecast !
:)

Perhaps should have put "UK" in the title. ?
A MBM publication listing motor cruisers available to the market in 1984 listed the following UK builders, giving good indication of a market able to buy a motor cruiser and run it .
Craft ranged from really small budget boats up to bespoke gentlemens yachts.
Virtually all the boats mentioned will still all be afloat somewhere.
Have left out generic builders such as Aquafibre who moulded hulls for just about everyone and tiny outfits and builders not actually based here such De Groot,Draco,Fjord,Windy,Albin.Bertram,Nimbus,Royal,Bertram,C Kip and Laguna etc.
All bar three are now history.
Albin
Aquastar.
Bates.
Birchwood
Brooms of all flavours Crown,Ocean etc
Channel Isles.
Chriscraft
Cristina
Cleopatra
Colvic
Coronet
Corvette
Dauntless
Del Quay
Fairy
Fairline
Freeman
Hagg
Halmatic
Hardy
Humber
Halmatic
Hunton
Island Plastics
Jaunty
JCL Marine. Moonraker .
Kemrock
Marine Projects.AKA Princess
Monarco
Moody
Nelson
Norman
Norseman
Otter
Pegasus
Picton
Powles
Python
Rampart
Relcraft
RLM
Sealine
Sealion
Seamaster.
Shetland
Sunseeker
Tough Bros.
Tremlett.
Weymouth.
 
The problem is that you've got to be a bit mental to own a boat. My wife reckons we must all be a bit autistic! It's not just the constant financial drain but the time required to learn how things work, source parts, arrange contractors, etc. I enjoy doing these things but if you don't then it could be a serious PITA.

I suppose you could pay someone to do everything but having viewed boats where this had supposedly been the case I would say that's the quickest route to a scruffy and unreliable boat.

Do youngsters have the same level of interest? I guess many of them are happier spending their money on a Porsche or an Aston Martin etc and going on nice holiday (or simply cycling as lots of my mates do). Cars don't require much investment of time and a full service for a 911 is cheap compared to my boat. When I mentioned to my mates at work this week that the boat needs anti fouling, new anodes, two days of polishing, as well as £2000 service every year they think I'm nuts! And that's before the inevitable mechanical failures, the 2mpg fuel burn and €thousands to park the thing.

Another reason for not buying a boat is family. I suspect most kids will hate their dad's boats these days. What's the attraction when they could be spending their time with their mates or glued to a TV or computer screen? We sold our last boat when our son was 5. I was quite surprised when he said a couple of weeks ago that he'd like to join us onboard this coming week (obviously motivated by Dad buying the flights, etc).
 
Again, why does that matter? If most boaters with marina/boat yard based boats are indeed 50+ years old, so what? There will still be plenty of 50+ year old people around in ten years time and in a hundred years time.

For most people the major expenses in life are house mortgage and kids. It's only once into the fifties for most people that those things are gone, freeing up more cash for other things.

I'm in my fifties and only recently able to afford a marina based boat. Interestingly, my route into boating was via a boat club and a Mirror dinghy, so exactly what the RYA are promoting today (albeit probably not Mirror dinghies!)

Not aimed at anyone specifically, but I notice that there does seem to be a lot of gloom talked on this forum. We're told that boats don't sell, and we should expect to knock huge amounts off yet in reality there's a real dearth of boats for sale and values, if anything, are rising. Princess, Sunseeker et all are all building the wrong boats that use too much fuel that no one wants and they should be building power cats and displacement boats, yet Princess has just announced record sales and are apparently all but sold out for 2018 and most of 2019 (and I don't know anyone on here who actually has a power cat!). And now boaters are dying off, they're all 50+, yet it's always been the case that that's typically the age group with sufficient disposable income to afford the larger marina based boats.

It seems strange that so many seem so intent on talking down the hobby that we love.

I totally agree. shmbo and I have been looking at boats for the best part of 20 years. when you have 3 lads growing up and you're not earning great money its impossible. The lads are now 30, 28 and 24 yo and they have all left home. I'm 51 yo now and we have just purchased our first boat. it's a pricey luxury even at our level but we are going to enjoy it. It's what we've wanted for many years. And like ari said, I think its the same for many families.
I'm no authority on who should be building what boat, but I think that a nice 28/30ft diesel engined sports cruiser and semi displacement in the same size from a couple of the big makers could give the market a real boost. But the makers will look at there books, and if they are full and profits are good then why bother.
As for the costs in marinas, it is very overpriced. £4k a year to keep your 26 footer in salty water for 12 months. I mean, really. Once someone pays over the odds for something the party is very quickly over and that price now becomes the price. The same goes for property.
 
Forty boats? They can't have been that far off forty with the number they had simultaneously at Dusseldorf and London in January! I can't imagine they then said 'that's it lads, take the rest of the year off'.

Suspect it's more like 250 boats a year, and that's a pretty niche builder compared to Jenneau, Bayliner, Beneteau etc etc.

Just thought I would throw some a number in the mix. In the past I worked for fairline on the Targa 52 line. A completed boat would roll out of the doors every 7 working days. the Targa 38 was even quicker. They also had a phantom line with 3 different lengths and a Squadron line with 3 different lengths. Thats a lot of boats.
 
:)

Perhaps should have put "UK" in the title. ?
A MBM publication listing motor cruisers available to the market in 1984 listed the following UK builders, giving good indication of a market able to buy a motor cruiser and run it .
Craft ranged from really small budget boats up to bespoke gentlemens yachts.
Virtually all the boats mentioned will still all be afloat somewhere.
Have left out generic builders such as Aquafibre who moulded hulls for just about everyone and tiny outfits and builders not actually based here such De Groot,Draco,Fjord,Windy,Albin.Bertram,Nimbus,Royal,Bertram,C Kip and Laguna etc.
All bar three are now history.
Albin
Aquastar.
Bates.
Birchwood
Brooms of all flavours Crown,Ocean etc
Channel Isles.
Chriscraft
Cristina
Cleopatra
Colvic
Coronet
Corvette
Dauntless
Del Quay
Fairy
Fairline
Freeman
Hagg
Halmatic
Hardy
Humber
Halmatic
Hunton
Island Plastics
Jaunty
JCL Marine. Moonraker .
Kemrock
Marine Projects.AKA Princess
Monarco
Moody
Nelson
Norman
Norseman
Otter
Pegasus
Picton
Powles
Python
Rampart
Relcraft
RLM
Sealine
Sealion
Seamaster.
Shetland
Sunseeker
Tough Bros.
Tremlett.
Weymouth.
i thought sealine are still going
 
A MBM publication listing motor cruisers available to the market in 1984 listed the following UK builders
If you're interested in an even longer list, just click on the "Cantieri Inglesi" link in this webpage.
Sorry, it's an IT-only website, but it serves the purpose anyway.

Btw, it's interesting to note that the number in parentheses near the link is referred to the total count - i.e. no less than 106, for Brit builders.
But if you think that's sad, just look at the same number for IT...
...Double? Triple? Nope, that's a whopping 775, believe it or not! :(
 
Is the poor market for brand new boats because people realise a used boat can be as good if not better built. Also a better bet financially.
 
:)

Perhaps should have put "UK" in the title. ?
A MBM publication listing motor cruisers available to the market in 1984 listed the following UK builders, giving good indication of a market able to buy a motor cruiser and run it .
Craft ranged from really small budget boats up to bespoke gentlemens yachts.
Virtually all the boats mentioned will still all be afloat somewhere.
Have left out generic builders such as Aquafibre who moulded hulls for just about everyone and tiny outfits and builders not actually based here such De Groot,Draco,Fjord,Windy,Albin.Bertram,Nimbus,Royal,Bertram,C Kip and Laguna etc.
All bar three are now history.
Albin
Aquastar.
Bates.
Birchwood
Brooms of all flavours Crown,Ocean etc
Channel Isles.
Chriscraft
Cristina
Cleopatra
Colvic
Coronet
Corvette
Dauntless
Del Quay
Fairy
Fairline
Freeman
Hagg
Halmatic
Hardy
Humber
Halmatic
Hunton
Island Plastics
Jaunty
JCL Marine. Moonraker .
Kemrock
Marine Projects.AKA Princess
Monarco
Moody
Nelson
Norman
Norseman
Otter
Pegasus
Picton
Powles
Python
Rampart
Relcraft
RLM
Sealine
Sealion
Seamaster.
Shetland
Sunseeker
Tough Bros.
Tremlett.
Weymouth.

I promised myself I wouldn't join in again but clearly I can't help myself... :D

Air Navigation and Engineering Company
Archer (automobile)
Armstrong Siddeley
Armstrong-CCM Motorcycles
Ascari Cars
Ascot (1904 automobile)
Associated Motor Cycles
Aster (automobile)
Ausfod
Austin Motor Company
Austin Rover Group
Austin-Healey
Avro
Berkeley (1913)
Birmingham Small Arms Company
Bowman Automotive
Bristol Siddeley
British Leyland
British Motor Corporation
British Motor Holdings
Brough Superior
Buckingham (automobile)
Car Craft Engineering
Carbodies
Chrysler Europe
Clan (car)
Cosmos Engineering
Culebra (automobile)
Deep Sanderson
Delfino (car company)
Dennis (automobile)
Dunelt MotorcyclesDutton Cars
Ekstromer
Electric Motive Power
Esculapeus
Heinkel Kabine
Hillman
Humber Motorcycles
Kieft Cars
Land Master
Lewis Electruk
Leyland Motors
Marcos Engineering
Marlborough (Anglo-French car)
MG Rover Group
MG Sports and Racing Europe
Mirage (race car)
Morris Commercial Cars
Morris Motors
Motor Carrier
Motor Manufacturing Company
Norton Villiers Triumph
Nuffield Organization
Packman & Poppe Motorcycles
Partridge Wilson Engineering
Peel Engineering Company
Pilot (automobile)
Project Kimber
Quadrant Cycle Company
Quasar-Unipower
Ralph Lucas
Rolls-Royce Limited
Roper-Corbet
Rover (marque)
Rover Company
Rover Group
Royale Racing
Ruston (engine builder)
Ruston & Hornsby
Sinclair Vehicles
Sports Junior
Squire Car Manufacturing Company
Standard Motor Company
Swallow Sidecar Company
Talbot
Toward & Philipson
Triumph Engineering
Trojan–Tauranac Racing
Unipower GT
Varley-Woods
Victor Electrics
Warwick (car)
Whitlock (manufacturing)
Wilkinson Sword
Willys Overland Crossley
Wolseley Motor

Is driving 'dying on its feet'?

Or has car manufacturing focussed into the big players with massive economy of scale like Toyota, Honda, BMW etc, just as in the marine industry today, huge companies like Bayliner, Jeanneau and Beneteau dominate?

Even Princess is gigantic compared to the bit player it was it was when Normon, Powles and Fairey were building boats, so is Sunseeker, and they're both arguably not even mass production.
 
Is the poor market for brand new boats because people realise a used boat can be as good if not better built. Also a better bet financially.

Again, what makes you think that there is a 'poor market for brand new boats'? Princess has just announced forward orders exceeding $1 billion for the first time ever! And that's with a range that starts well into six figures and climbs rapidly.

http://www.ybw.com/news-from-yachti...ts-with-highest-sales-in-its-53-history-66794

2017 was a record year for Princess Yachts, with the luxury yacht manufacturer seeing their highest ever number of sales in 53 years

The turnover for 2017 was up by 26.6%, with of £274.4 million, advance orders are up by 20% and an Operating Profit before Exceptionals of £7.9m (2.9% of sales), representing a turnaround of £15 million compared to 2016
 
Last edited:
We were in the position that we could afford a new boat, but the current offerings are under powered & poorly put together IMO. We went used & are spending north of 100k on upgrades to make it "our" perfect boat. We will be lucky to get anywhere near half the cost of extras should we ever sell, but the intention is to pass to son so it becomes his problem. He will probably put it in px for something like "Match" anyway & no doubt get a good deal from BCU.
 
The problem is that you've got to be a bit mental to own a boat. My wife reckons we must all be a bit autistic! It's not just the constant financial drain but the time required to learn how things work, source parts, arrange contractors, etc. I enjoy doing these things but if you don't then it could be a serious PITA.

I suppose you could pay someone to do everything but having viewed boats where this had supposedly been the case I would say that's the quickest route to a scruffy and unreliable boat.

Do youngsters have the same level of interest? I guess many of them are happier spending their money on a Porsche or an Aston Martin etc and going on nice holiday (or simply cycling as lots of my mates do). Cars don't require much investment of time and a full service for a 911 is cheap compared to my boat. When I mentioned to my mates at work this week that the boat needs anti fouling, new anodes, two days of polishing, as well as £2000 service every year they think I'm nuts! And that's before the inevitable mechanical failures, the 2mpg fuel burn and €thousands to park the thing.

Another reason for not buying a boat is family. I suspect most kids will hate their dad's boats these days. What's the attraction when they could be spending their time with their mates or glued to a TV or computer screen? We sold our last boat when our son was 5. I was quite surprised when he said a couple of weeks ago that he'd like to join us onboard this coming week (obviously motivated by Dad buying the flights, etc).

I can relate to that. My kids are now 14 and 12, long gone are the days when we just strapped them into the car every weekend and headed off to the marina. Last year we made less than half the use of five years ago. That makes the costs, which even for my modest 34' mobo are easily north of £10k p.a. if everything incl deprciation and cost of capital is included, a lot for the the usage. OTOH in school holidays it's £3k to take the family to Mallorca for a week.... but then the weather is somehat better. When I do get the kids onto the boat and the weather is good we have all have a fantastic time. I also rather enjoy the time spent fixing and improving, it's almost a floating man-cave.

As the original point that moboing is dying - I don't buy that at all. Go around the Solent, Poole, Stundlad, Swanage on a sunny afternoon and there are loads of small mobos and fisher types with youngsters at the helm. It may be that the type of moboing is changing, buy dying, I just don't buy that.
 
Top