Why Junk Riggs are good for CRUISING? WHY NOT?

Little Dorrit said:
Bill King attempted the Golden Globe race in 1968 (Knox-Johnson, Moitessier, Crowhurst etc) with Gallway Blazer which was a twin masted junk rig, ultimately defeated when his masts broke in 50 ft waves but he did eventually complete the circumnavigation a few years later.
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Bill King later on did blame him self rather the boat as a real man should do. He just used the wrong heavy weather tactic, but what a boat it was..... she was ahead of her time the whole hull was shaped like a tear drop. Just fantastic.
 
chriss999 said:
Yes, that is my experience. Once the sail is up and approximately trimmed to the wind there is actually very little to do. Plenty of time for reading, cooking, dozing, knitting or whatever else takes your fancy.
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Cruising is all about being free to look after the vessel, an afternoon sail and back to port can be as exciting as you want, but not cruising. Junk rigs are tough, low stress and cheap, making them even better........
 
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They do look remarkbly easy to sail but not a big fan of how they look too be honest. An easy alternative if you prefer bermudan cruisers would be a self tacking jib, theirs a few boats that have that around.
 
Tammany said:
They do look remarkbly easy to sail but not a big fan of how they look too be honest. An easy alternative if you prefer bermudan cruisers would be a self tacking jib, theirs a few boats that have that around.
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I agree, self tacking jibs simplify things. Still whether you like their appearance or not is besides the point, The ease of reefing is what junks are all about.
I on the other hand don't like the high loads Bermudas put on the vessel, a Bermuda must be bar tight to work well, the loads are ridiculous on masts, sails, rigging, chain plates and hulls. Junk rigs are very low stress, making them cheaper more reliable and easy to fix anywhere. Last but not least, the costs of Bermuda gear like winches, roller furlings, spinnakers, and heavy weather sails has become outrages.
I made my 9.5 square meter cambered panel sail in a day, with cheap Polytarp and pine battens. A Bermuda sail no way I could make my self, only the sewing machines used to sew thick Dacron costs more than my boat.........
 
chrisedwards said:
Sailing is far more exciting in a junk rig.

Ease of handling means you can sail in situations where a bermudan sailor wouldn't.

Then you gain a wealth of close quarters sailing experience denied to bermudan sailors.

And become better and better sailors with new sailing challenges always available.

An exciting new world!
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I think it was your junk-rigged ketch "Dragonfly" I watched coming into Newtown Creek about 10 years ago and took some photos.

You (if it was you) were single-handed and I was impressed by how easily you handled her, sailing around effortlessly until you found a good spot to anchor. Sails dropped in an instant and anchor let go.
 
NealB said:
Sorry, I'm not sure how to break this to you ...... but ...errr ....

Errr ... hhmmmmmm..... let's just say that I think you are exhibiting all the symptoms of a bad dose of gross exaggeration!

Excellent!!!
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Poignard said:
I think it was your junk-rigged ketch "Dragonfly" I watched coming into Newtown Creek about 10 years ago and took some photos.

You (if it was you) were single-handed and I was impressed by how easily you handled her, sailing around effortlessly until you found a good spot to anchor. Sails dropped in an instant and anchor let go.
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Neil B - Have you much experience in sailing junks or are you displaying symptoms of gross prejudice?

Excellent!!!!

Poignard - thanks, I have a junk rigged schooner now with red sails. You are very welcome to flag me down in Newtown if you would like a go.
 
chrisedwards said:
Neil B - Have you much experience in sailing junks or are you displaying symptoms of gross prejudice?

Excellent!!!!

Poignard - thanks, I have a junk rigged schooner now with red sails. You are very welcome to flag me down in Newtown if you would like a go.
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I would enjoy that very much but my boat is now kept in Brittany so I'm unlikely to meet up with you in the Solent
 
chrisedwards said:
Neil B - Have you much experience in sailing junks or are you displaying symptoms of gross prejudice?

Excellent!!!!
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As mentioned (above), many years ago, I owned a Coromandel for just one season, having felt strongly drawn to the idea of junk rig since my childhood (all the fault of that Hasler chap!).

For the sailing I was doing at the time, it just wasn't really what I wanted.

So ........ one year, out of my over 50 years of owning sailing boats, have been spent with a real live junk.

I'll plead not guilty, therefore, your honour, to gross prejudice, but certainly 'guilty' to not being an expert.

I can still see a great deal of appeal in the rig.

Now......... at the risk of opening things up too much, the most 'fun' rig I've owned was a proper, traditional, gaff cutter. Absolutely loved it, and I miss her terribly!!

Edit: I've just googled, something like, 'junk rigged schooner Dragonfly'.

If she 's the first image that came up, that's a very fine looking ship indeed (but yes, yes, of course, you know that already!).
 
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NealB said:
As mentioned (above), many years ago, I owned a Coromandel for just one season, having felt strongly drawn to the idea of junk rig since my childhood (all the fault of that Hasler chap!).

For the sailing I was doing at the time, it just wasn't really what I wanted.
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I'm no expert, but I'm guessing that the Coromandel had flat sails? More recently, there's been a lot of development of the rig, mainly with cambered sails. They make a huge difference, particularly closer to the wind. The old saw "junks don't go to windward" is no longer true. Whether they do it for you is a personal question, but for singlehanding I'd never go back to bermudian.
 
Black Sheep said:
I'm no expert, but I'm guessing that the Coromandel had flat sails? More recently, there's been a lot of development of the rig, mainly with cambered sails. They make a huge difference, particularly closer to the wind. The old saw "junks don't go to windward" is no longer true. Whether they do it for you is a personal question, but for singlehanding I'd never go back to bermudian.
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Oh yes, my Coromandel sails, way back in the early 80's, were as flat as a pancake.

She certainly fitted that 'old saw', and I have no trouble believing that things have moved on considerably since then.
 
Junk rig was here for thousands of years before Bermudan, then that took over. There must be a reason.

A bit like propellers replaced oars.
 
I sailed many miles (including UK between Suffolk and Falmouth and the continent between Brest and the Netherlands), in a friend's 12m Junk rigged schooner, and it didn't put me off. (I nearly bought a Coromandel later.)

The ease of reefing and shaking out a reef is probably the greatest benefit, in my view; together with the ease and boatspeed (with two masts) of running goose-winged; the ability to safely sail by the lee; everything being low tension/low tech and therefore easily and cheaply repaired/altered etc., etc.

As I remember it the main disadvantages, apart from not so good close-winded (especially on one tack), were the miles of rope in the cockpit in a boat that size, and the lack of shrouds to hang on to going forward.
 
Catalina36 said:
Junk rig was here for thousands of years before Bermudan, then that took over. There must be a reason.
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The reason is that the prime use, and focus of development, of sails became racing, rather than working. So maximum speed/close-windedness was more important than ease of handling and cost. (And cruising gradually adopted the racing sail fashions, as it did with hulls.)

Bermudan vs. Junk is like a typical high tuned engine versus a low tuned one. The first will certainly provide greater maximum power, but if it's not just right power will fall off rapidly and it will run roughly. The latter has lower maximum power, but is much less sensitive, and will continue to go nicely and provide power when things (whether ignition timing or sail angle of attack, for instance) are well off ideal.

Neither is inherently better or worse: it's all a matter of purpose and taste (and depth of pockets, and access to specialist gear & expertise, etc.).
 
I agree fully with that summary.
The long mainsheet is a pain at times. It can tangle when hoisting and needs pulling in when lowering the sail.
But my whole rig is home designed and home made (except the sail) and I can replace any or all of it easily and cheaply.
Gybing is entirely painless except watching for ‘fan-up’.
Going forward not recommended, but not usually necessary. (Mine is a single master.)
Next trip I’m packing carpet slippers!
 
Thread drift alert!

My engine analogy reminds me of a friend some years back who loved the ancient low tuned Ford side-valve engine in his pre-war Morgan 3 wheeler. He gave the impression it would run on anything from jet fuel to paraffin, provided there was a spark somewhat closer to top dead centre than bottom dead centre. (I guess his manual advance and retard gave him scope for 'tuning'!)
 
Junk Rigs can be made out of toilet paper..... VS on the high tension Bermudan, only the finest Dacron will work.
Somewhere on the net, a few years ago, while I was learning and designing my Junk Rig, I read an article, some cruiser guy wrote. He mentioned his Junk sails were so old, they had done so many miles, that the cloth was so weak he could push his finger through and pop holes anywhere he chose to..... Still he wrote, they were still working good as new!
I had a Bermudan rigged Mono, a racer cruiser from the seventies, my sails were old. Fixing them was ether very hard, impossible, or very expensive, depending on the problem....

Since then, I stitched up all my sails, Sprit rig, Oceanic Lateens and finally my Cambered Panel Junk Rig. And U know What? My cambered Junk goes better to windward on a Multihull than my old Bermudan did on a Monohull! All the other advantages of the Junk have been mentioned above, so no need to repeat them...
Bermudas are for racing, they win races, and that's what we see on T.V. that's what we are made to believe and that's what is sold. but don't expect an old Bermudan to work as well as an old Junk will, cos it wont. High tension takes it's toll............
 
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