Why is the new Sealine F46 so slow?

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Anyone read the test of the new F46 in this month's MBY? Despite having 480hp motors and Zeus pod drives, the thing only does 29 knots and uses fuel at a dismal 0.75mpg at cruising speed. If the F46 was fitted with standard shafts, these figures would be a tad disappointing but I thought pods were supposed to be a lot more efficient than shafts. The usual excuse was trotted out about it being a heavier than designed prototype boat but, if production boats turn out to be lighter, then, any weight saving will be negated by cruising gear and fouling so it looks like F46 owners will have to get used to not cruising very fast and using a lot of fuel.
So have Sealine dropped a ******* here? Will tweaking the Zeus drives get the extra 3-4 knots that the boat needs? Should the F46 have been designed with standard shafts?
 
What we've hearing for a while now, the mechanical losses in changing the direction of drive and the number of moving parts in close proximity use up hp.

HP at the prop is what should be quoted.

All the seatorque fitted vessels have shown performance greater than predicted by the naval architects. Pods although efficient under the water loose hp in other areas.

I know its not a fast boat but come and see the Fleming 65 at SIBS and talk to them about drives and performance/economy.
 
33/35 knots is the WOT speed estimated on the SC47 with the same engines
I think a peak of 32 knots for the F46 which has the same hull and engines should be on the grabs
yes it is slow! if they manage those extra 3 knots want be bad
I was also dissappointed with the estimated for the new Prestige 60 which does also the same as a shaft powered boat with a similar HP, Prestige will have the new bigger IPS 900, and has so far estimated top speeds of 31 knots
whats seems to be doing well is the new Sessa 54 Sport Fly also with IPSII and estimates of a 37 knots max, we will see if these get confirmed

actually I am a tad dissappinted of the Sealine because I am a bigger fan of the ZF Zeus drive to the Volvo forward looking IPS pods

may be in the end as Neil Young says shafts are still the way to go, and as we say in Maltese we where much better when it was worse... or not
 
Yep, I could get 29 knots and almost 1 mpg with my old shaft driven T46 with lower powered and less efficient TAMD 73P's. Not forgetting as well that Sealine achieved some quite interesting results on the T50 with shafts and a new hull design, so that it could reach over 35 knots at reasonable efficiency. Against both these, the F46 with Zeus drives seems to have gone backwards.
 
Deleted User said:
Anyone read the test of the new F46 in this month's MBY? Despite having 480hp motors and Zeus pod drives, the thing only does 29 knots and uses fuel at a dismal 0.75mpg at cruising speed. If the F46 was fitted with standard shafts, these figures would be a tad disappointing but I thought pods were supposed to be a lot more efficient than shafts. The usual excuse was trotted out about it being a heavier than designed prototype boat but, if production boats turn out to be lighter, then, any weight saving will be negated by cruising gear and fouling so it looks like F46 owners will have to get used to not cruising very fast and using a lot of fuel.
So have Sealine dropped a ******* here? Will tweaking the Zeus drives get the extra 3-4 knots that the boat needs? Should the F46 have been designed with standard shafts?
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Yup, it is very disappointing. I wouldn't care about the actual top speed but the poor efficiency and smaller range would be a big problem imho. It aint much fun sitting on a fuel dock, even before you get to the bill-paying part

I read the f46 report and thought it looked much prettier in some of those pictures than on the spy shots on here, but overall i thought it was a very disappointing boat. No lazerette, no crew cabin, no storage aft of amidships, on a 46-er? That's nuts. And pretty lousy design features esp on the flybridge. Like those seat backrests standing in for guardrails, no chair for a co-pilot (which is a big deal for night passages in hot weather imho), and who put the steaming light in front of the helmsman's face? And the helmsman has to stand up out his chair to fiddle with the knobs on the E120 (I know I sound like a broken record on that one but it's a big deal isn't it?).

It does seem to be very competitively priced, but it's a shame Sealine didn't grab the chance to make a boat as good as a Prin/Fair/Sunseeker 48 but 150k-200k cheaper, which would have been a no-brainer purchasing decision. Instead they've made it loads cheaper but also loads lacking in desirability, and many customers will be tempted to pay the extra and get the Prin/Fair/Sunseeker choice. Shame really
 
I dont agree with the last quote JFM

I am sure the the F46 large full beam owners cabin, along with pods and competitive price can prove to be a top seller for Sealine

yes what you say is all spot on, but am sure buyers actually dont bother of this stuff, its all first impressions that count and the first is a deal breaker for a woman, the second and third are for the man
remember that the F46 is a 150/200k cheaper to a Fariline 48 Phantom and Princess 50 Mk.III, and with current UK EURO rates 300k cheaper to an Azimut 47
that can play a big part especially with a brand which has a huge following and is appreciated for its space use
I think with all its basher here, this still can still be a huge seller and would be even more IMO if Sealine adds a third cabin option
 
PowerYachtBlog said:
I dont agree with the last quote JFM

I am sure the the F46 large full beam owners cabin, along with pods and competitive price can prove to be a top seller for Sealine

yes what you say is all spot on, but am sure buyers actually dont bother of this stuff, its all first impressions that count and the first is a deal breaker for a woman, the second and third are for the man
remember that the F46 is a 150/200k cheaper to a Fariline 48 Phantom and Princess 50 Mk.III, and with current UK EURO rates 300k cheaper to an Azimut 47
that can play a big part especially with a brand which has a huge following and is appreciated for its space use
I think with all its basher here, this still can still be a huge seller and would be even more IMO if Sealine adds a third cabin option
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Let's wait and see how many they sell. I'm interpeting what you say as a run rate of 25 boats/year, yes? I'd predict half that, though I'd be very happy if proven wrong!

I think they are offering a 3rd cabin option as part of the launch spec. It goes where the lower dining table is on hull #1
 
hmm 25 bpy is very optimisitic in current market conditions

when the local agent of Sunseeker was promoting the new 50 Manhattan back in 2004, he told me they will produce 15 per year at the time with a max capacity of 25

now whatever the price of a Sealine I am sure it does not have a global market as big as Sunseeker...
if they targeted 25 per year IMO it is too optimistic at the moment considering 1) the global recession 2) the general UK slow down which is Sealine's biggest market AFAIK
 
jfm said:
Yup, it is very disappointing. I wouldn't care about the actual top speed but the poor efficiency and smaller range would be a big problem imho. It aint much fun sitting on a fuel dock, even before you get to the bill-paying part

I read the f46 report and thought it looked much prettier in some of those pictures than on the spy shots on here, but overall i thought it was a very disappointing boat. No lazerette, no crew cabin, no storage aft of amidships, on a 46-er? That's nuts. And pretty lousy design features esp on the flybridge. Like those seat backrests standing in for guardrails, no chair for a co-pilot (which is a big deal for night passages in hot weather imho), and who put the steaming light in front of the helmsman's face? And the helmsman has to stand up out his chair to fiddle with the knobs on the E120 (I know I sound like a broken record on that one but it's a big deal isn't it?).

It does seem to be very competitively priced, but it's a shame Sealine didn't grab the chance to make a boat as good as a Prin/Fair/Sunseeker 48 but 150k-200k cheaper, which would have been a no-brainer purchasing decision. Instead they've made it loads cheaper but also loads lacking in desirability, and many customers will be tempted to pay the extra and get the Prin/Fair/Sunseeker choice. Shame really
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Agree 100%. The F46 could and should have been a groundbreaker for Sealine but, again, they've spoilt it for a lack of attention to detail. Those backrests on the flybridge look positively dangerous to me; what was the designer thinking? No lazarette/crew cabin is also stupid. Heaven knows where the designer thinks owners are going to store all the paraphanalia that goes on a cruising boat. Whats frustrating is that putting these stupid faults right wouldn't have cost much. And how stupid was it to allow MBY to test the boat without optimising the performance? Anybody thinking about buying a F46 who reads that report is now going to think again.
I applaud Sealine for introducing such an innovative boat at such a competitive price but it's flawed when it need not have been and that will damage it's sales prospects
 
Agree in the current market it would have been better to get the detail sorted before launch, particularly when there are some really good ideas.
 
Seems to me all the new shape sealines are inefficient. The price for the reported good handling I suppose.
SC38 is as economical as an SC35. The 2 47s are the same hull so stands to reason they are both the same.
 
Concur on most of above thoughts - you wonder if the design team ever use boats. I too thought that the F/B back rests iso wind deflectors was odd. Certainly an extra set of cleats is needed as far aft on the main deck as possible - forget Med berthing what about marinas with locks?

Where does the water run off from the fore deck - looks to me as it sweeps straight down the hill into the cockpit area - fab!


I do not like this buisness of being on the F/B instead of being seated 'in it', quite a few boats i have viewed have the seat at the same level as the side - screen thus no proper projection.
As MB&Y point out ,to have a tender you must have a crane or Paz as there is no other way to carry any sort of dinghy as the swim platform is not wide enough and unless you fit a O/B bracket no place for a motor.

Quite looking forward to next week and seeing this in the flesh with SWMBO; some of the boat I really like and I hope that many of the shortcomings will be fixable. I remember a couple of years back Royal Denship (thro Peters?) had a massive but only twin cabin boat at SIBS and SWMBO spotted that the guest cabin had no wardroom to hang stuff in! Design thing again.
 
I think Sealine have been somewhat rushed to get this boat ready for the autumn shows, to try and get some orders in. The result is a product that's not quite right, but let's be fair it's hull #1 and they are stating it's basically a prototype and it is quite an ambitious design. No manufacturer get's everything right on hull #1. It seems to me that many of the flaws can be quite easily sorted for hull #2, such as the f/b seat backrests, steaming light, positioning of stern cleats etc. Sorting the lack of storage may be somewhat harder and does looks like a significant issue. Sealine have said the boat is 750Kg odd overweight and also the trim isn't right. Fixing these should help the top end and hopefully bring the fuel burn down to nearer the SC47's figures.

I think they are to be applauded for being innovative (again) and I hope they can sort out the issues that exist as otherwise it appears to be a cracking boat. I'm looking forward to having a good look around her at SIBS.
 
mjf said:
Where does the water run off from the fore deck - looks to me as it sweeps straight down the hill into the cockpit area - fab!
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Blimey, you're right. I didn't think anyone made that basic mistake anymore (plenty of 1990s designs got this point wrong)
aau.sized.jpg
 
mjf said:
I am aware that some of the UK manufactures do actually ask owner opinions and actively seek advice - often ignored; but at least it weeds out some howlers before hull #2/3 etc.
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Sealine arguably more than most. On 2 counts that I know of. First, they hired consultants to make detialed telephone interviews of many customers of both sealine and other brands, a couple of years ago. Several on here took part and spent c45mins on the phone with them. They did take some of the advice (eg, the new F46 has the correct sized Tecma WCs, not the compact child's potty size) but not all of it. The mistkae they made imho was to engage middlemen to do the survey. They weren't boaters, so didn't "get" some of what was said to them. The actual Sealine designers should have made some of the calls, imho

Second, when the T60 was launched about 5 yrs ago there was a big thread on here about its good and bad points. Sealine (Mr Wainwright) got in touch with some of the thread contributors (tcm and me, and perhaps others) and invited us to the factory in kidderminster to talk about the product first hand. I didn't want to spend a whole day on this so didn't go, and tcm couldn't either I think, but they did at least take notice of everyone's comments (though again they didn't act on them all)
 
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