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I thought we'd established that it's not really needed and that the courses are expensive?
Why is Ocean Theory so Expensive?
- Thread starter Paddy Layback
- Start date
I thought we'd established that it's not really needed and that the courses are expensive?
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
I can't dance the samba but see no pressing reason to go on a course in it in order to confirm my belief that for me it is unnecessary.
GHA
Well-Known Member
More like *probably* won't be needed on ocean passages. Big difference.
And not a really a reason to not bother learning.
[163233]
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Price and need are pretty sound reasons for not learning things.
If they weren't then my SW Scotland Samba academy would be doing much better.
GHA
Well-Known Member
Not for cautious ocean sailors. Anyway, you can learn it for free.
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I think we need to see you Samba.
GHA
Well-Known Member
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Dammit, I have to get a sextant now...
KINGFISHER 9
Well-Known Member
I think you can get a cream for that!
lw395
Well-Known Member
lw395
Well-Known Member
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Who is the "we"? Some people believe it is not necessary - but again the OP did not ask that question, but others waded in with that notion - probably many of them not knowing astro so therefore only seeing it from their point of view.
Necessity is only one reason for learning. Our universities would be half empty if only those who had a necessity to learn enrolled.
Think you will find most people who responded from a basis of knowledge of how courses are run and costed do not think they are expensive. However some, particularly those who do not need the course may think them expensive or poor value.
So, little agreement on any of those points.
roblpm
Well-Known Member
Sorry for contributing to the thread drift but....
Surely if you are going to drive a super yacht there is something more useful to learn.
Lets turn this round the other way. If you were inventing sailing and professional qualifications from scratch would astro form a sizeable oart if it. I doubt it. Feels like inertia to me.
As I said before I am sure learning astro is fun. And people could run courses in it and people could go to them. But pretending it is am essential part of crossing an ocean in any sort of boat seems bizarre to me.
laika
Well-Known Member
I return to my earlier question: if astro is irrelevant for ocean sailing, are non-gps forms of position derivation obsolete for coastal sailing, and if not where's the difference? That's not arguing its relevance or non-relevance, just asking whether the comparison is valid.
And, non-rhetorical question, what would they replace it with in YM Ocean (possibly a thread in itself)?
No-one, I think, has argued that it's essential for crossing an ocean. However for the "highest" qualifications in any form of navigation isn't it valid to throw the less-commonly-used techniques in if they might have some utility in some situation?
alant
Well-Known Member
I don't design the regulations for qualifications, the MCA do.
It's an international ticket starting at Master 200 tonne, so if you have any complaints, take it up with them.
As stated earlier, it's not just astro, so go on a course & find out.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
If I had meant GLONASS I would have written GLONASS. I meant GPS and Galileo, both of which are types of GNSS.
obmij
Well-Known Member
Spring place require you to know all sorts of arcane twaddle - but that's not to say it wont be of use one day. A sextant is just a tool to measure angles after all.
As for the RYA route..I think YM Ocean can only be used as a support to the Master <200gt ticket? That would be an underwhelming superyacht..
As for the RYA route..I think YM Ocean can only be used as a support to the Master <200gt ticket? That would be an underwhelming superyacht..
Tranona
Well-Known Member
The point is that any qualification that purports to be at the highest level will have some content that is not in lower qualifications and may not be essential. The point Laika makes about the non GPS methods of finding a fix which underpins th coastal and offshore levels. Also just look at the fuss following changes in the way that tidal weights and streams sit in the low introductory level course. You do not need to know about tides when Navionics on an app do the sums for you to construct a CTS and Absolute Tides tidal heights for every hour of the day.
Yachtmaster Ocean is derived from MCA requirements which still requires masters to know more than crew, so not unreasonable that they require a greater understanding of how to navigate out of sight of land without relying on electronic aids.
Remember that none of this is compulsory for leisure sailors, so nothing prevents you (like kellys eye) from setting sail without the knowledge and kit to get where you want without electronic assistance (or a good dose of luck).
KellysEye
Well-Known Member
>You are still missing the point. This is NOT about whether it is necessary to be proficient in astro to sail long distance, but about the cost and suitability of courses.
I didn't mentiomn Astro never said anybody need to be proficient in Astro but we did carry a sextant and used it for fun and time wasting on long passages.
>As you do not seem to know how to do it, nor have been on an RYA course, why did you bother to post anything?
I posted it because you don't need to go on RYA courses as Jane and I have proved.
>You have only done what thousands of others have done, so why bother posting as it is irrelevant to the topic of the thread.
Can you name the thousands and what I posted isn't irevelant it is factual information what we did.
I didn't mentiomn Astro never said anybody need to be proficient in Astro but we did carry a sextant and used it for fun and time wasting on long passages.
>As you do not seem to know how to do it, nor have been on an RYA course, why did you bother to post anything?
I posted it because you don't need to go on RYA courses as Jane and I have proved.
>You have only done what thousands of others have done, so why bother posting as it is irrelevant to the topic of the thread.
Can you name the thousands and what I posted isn't irevelant it is factual information what we did.
lw395
Well-Known Member
Keep your feathers on, just asking.
You must be the only person I know of who has Galileo and not Glonass.
I have a glonass-ony receiver in my collection.
Lots of receivers do Glonass these days to get type approval in Russia, even if they tend to use GPS as a preference in normal use.
I don't think it really counts as a true back up, as the things that will most likely knock out the average yacht's GPSs will take out Glonass too.