Why have southerly gone bust (again)?

pvb said:
;) He's a consummate salesman! Although I'm not sure the Gunfleet range is exactly flying out of the moulds.
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Or ... see other thread ... the GT35. the British boatbuilding industry seems to have given up on mass production, and even modest series production, altogether in favour of companies which commission a few designs for spectacularly expensive customised one-offs and hope that the occasional punter comes along. Which is fine, and there is nothing wrong with making your money that way, except that it means that Oyster, Gunfleet, GT and the rest are all chasing after the same market sector, and just how many people are there wanting to pay half a million upwards for a status symbol sailing yacht?
 
JumbleDuck said:
and just how many people are there wanting to pay half a million upwards for a status symbol sailing yacht?
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None at all if the posters to this forum are to be believed. Rather more if the entries to the Arc, Oyster RTW rally etc etc are studied carefully, but probably not enough to justify the current number of "premium" builders.

However most of these people are not, contrary to the often expressed views here, buying a "status symbol." I for one don't give a fig what you or anybody else thinks about my boat, but I do spend a lot of time and emotion on it and want it to be just right. Most of the enjoyment takes place out of sight of land and people after all!

The trend for "wanting the best, no matter what it costs" is very much alive and well in everything from the dominance of top law firms to the rising price of footballers. Yachts are no different, most people only own one after all so why compromise? No reflection on whether the GT35 cuts it in that exclusive company though. People who want the best are by definition fussy and difficult to please. (See Southerly threads passim)
 
Tempus said:
However most of these people are not, contrary to the often expressed views here, buying a "status symbol." I for one don't give a fig what you or anybody else thinks about my boat, but I do spend a lot of time and emotion on it and want it to be just right. Most of the enjoyment takes place out of sight of land and people after all!
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Sure. But I think there are also a lot of people who buy something big, floaty and blingy, stick in in a marina, enjoys drinks parties on board for a couple of years and then move on to something else. Lots of abandoned but very expensive boats in the marinas I have been in recently. And, of course, there are plenty of people who enjoy spending a lot of time and perhaps a relatively large amount of money getting much smaller boats just right too.

The trend for "wanting the best, no matter what it costs" is very much alive and well in everything from the dominance of top law firms to the rising price of footballers. Yachts are no different, most people only own one after all so why compromise? No reflection on whether the GT35 cuts it in that exclusive company though. People who want the best are by definition fussy and difficult to please. (See Southerly threads passim)
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Hmm. I suspect that a lot of people who think they want "the best" are actually very easily fobbed off with "the most expensive". Today I learned about Veblen Goods: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Hmm. I suspect that a lot of people who think they want "the best" are actually very easily fobbed off with "the most expensive". Today I learned about Veblen Goods: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good.
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Only just got round to that?

Like most economic theories it is only a general and partial explanation of what motivates people.

Very few people are "fobbed off" - most (except perhaps footballers, pop stars, lottery winners etc) have got in position of being able to afford expensive things through their own efforts and are quite capable of making their own decisions about what is of value or not. If you have ever worked with wealthy customers you would discover that they usually know exactly what they want and are very demanding, or employ people to do the demanding for them. Think what it must have been like for Oyster and Sunseeker having Eddie Jordan as a customer.

Of course some discover it is not how they imagined after buying and lose interest, others have changed circumstances. Often the big purchase comes too late in the life cycle of the person buying and the time they have available to enjoy is too short.
 
Twister_Ken said:
I've heard that the land is not zoned for residential, and is unlikely to be in the foreseeable future. When the foreseeable future runs out I'm not sure.

Apart from that, Britain needs new homes rather more than it needs lift keel yachts!
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No the UK needs fewer people. We have a lot of people leaving this country every year. All we need to do is stop new arrivals and the housing problem will go away.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Sure. But I think there are also a lot of people who buy something big, floaty and blingy, stick in in a marina, enjoys drinks parties on board for a couple of years and then move on to something else. Lots of abandoned but very expensive boats in the marinas I have been in recently. .
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Agree totally, although in my experience these people either buy the biggest boat their money will buy, not realising that size brings it's own problems, or a well known brand like Oyster., or more commonly a Mobo. I doubt Southerly got much of this bling market at all as they are neither well known enough to be blingy and were certainly not value enough to appeal to the total neophytes.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Sure. But I think there are also a lot of people who buy something big, floaty and blingy, stick in in a marina, enjoys drinks parties on board for a couple of years and then move on to something else. Lots of abandoned but very expensive boats in the marinas I have been in recently. And, of course, there are plenty of people who enjoy spending a lot of time and perhaps a relatively large amount of money getting much smaller boats just right too.



Hmm. I suspect that a lot of people who think they want "the best" are actually very easily fobbed off with "the most expensive". Today I learned about Veblen Goods: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good.
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I think that is a bit unfair, there are some like that. However I think it is obvious that if you are successful enough to be able to afford a new Oyster you are not likely to have lots of free time to enjoy it. It is sad but it goes with territory as they say. I also believe that the vast majority of these people are smart and do know what they are buying.
 
Tranona said:
Only just got round to that?
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I knew the idea of conspicuous consumption, hadn't heard of Veblen.

Very few people are "fobbed off" - most (except perhaps footballers, pop stars, lottery winners etc) have got in position of being able to afford expensive things through their own efforts and are quite capable of making their own decisions about what is of value or not.
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Still not convinced. Suspect that a city lawyer with no sailing experience is not best placed to evaluate boats and will go for expensive over cheap, particularly if it's just a case of finding something to spend this year's bonus on. Many exceptions, of course.
 
Seven Spades said:
No the UK needs fewer people. We have a lot of people leaving this country every year. All we need to do is stop new arrivals and the housing problem will go away.
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And I suppose compulsary vasectomies for all men over 30 will help as well. Come on, the population is growing without any help from immigrants, or are you saying that all British men are infertile?

Jon
 
JumbleDuck said:
I knew the idea of conspicuous consumption, hadn't heard of Veblen.



Still not convinced. Suspect that a city lawyer with no sailing experience is not best placed to evaluate boats and will go for expensive over cheap, particularly if it's just a case of finding something to spend this year's bonus on. Many exceptions, of course.
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Not sure about that. I think any very successful professional is likely to have researched his/her buy thoroughly. Not so perhaps thr nouveau riches!
 
Kurrawong_Kid said:
Not sure about that. I think any very successful professional is likely to have researched his/her buy thoroughly. Not so perhaps thr nouveau riches!
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On the other hand, I think a lot of very successful people are so bust being very successful that they outsource a lot of decisions to other people. "Yacht broker? Rich man here. I want a good boat - what do you recommend?"

Tranona said:
Don't spoil the stereotype! There has to be a rich city lawyer (or banker) to blame.
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Just choosing a well paid, busy and non-technical profession. Substitute "Harley street cosmetic surgeon" if you want.
 
JumbleDuck said:
On the other hand, I think a lot of very successful people are so bust being very successful that they outsource a lot of decisions to other people. "Yacht broker? Rich man here. I want a good boat - what do you recommend?"



Just choosing a well paid, busy and non-technical profession. Substitute "Harley street cosmetic surgeon" if you want.
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So, being well paid, busy and non-technical means incapable of making informed decisions about how to spend your own money?

Just wondering how Harrison Butler (Consultant Opthalmic Surgeon) ever managed to design and have built so many accomplished boats.

Put the stereotypes back in the box where they belong.
 
JumbleDuck said:
On the other hand, I think a lot of very successful people are so bust being very successful that they outsource a lot of decisions to other people. "Yacht broker? Rich man here. I want a good boat - what do you recommend?"



Just choosing a well paid, busy and non-technical profession. Substitute "Harley street cosmetic surgeon" if you want.
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Doesn't stack up at all in my experience. Most of the busy city types I crewed with owned nothing more 'high end' than a Beneteau, or in a couple of cases an X Yacht.

Also if you talk to anyone who is actually involved in the sale / production of expensive / very expensive yachts, they will tell you that many, many owners devote a significant amount of time to searching for, and specifying the boat they want; as they find the process of buying and specc'ing a yacht an extremely absorbing activity that gives them a chance to think/plan/execute a process that is about something other than work. Indeed a lot of serial yacht owners enjoy this part of the process the most, and the boat will actually be on the market before its even got wet.
 
AndrewfromFal said:
Doesn't stack up at all in my experience. Most of the busy city types I crewed with owned nothing more 'high end' than a Beneteau, or in a couple of cases an X Yacht.

Also if you talk to anyone who is actually involved in the sale / production of expensive / very expensive yachts, they will tell you that many, many owners devote a significant amount of time to searching for, and specifying the boat they want; as they find the process of buying and specc'ing a yacht an extremely absorbing activity that gives them a chance to think/plan/execute a process that is about something other than work. Indeed a lot of serial yacht owners enjoy this part of the process the most, and the boat will actually be on the market before its even got wet.
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Sorry, I think I may be an exception to your theory.

Was a had a successful business in the city.

Spent a very long time researching boats ( I think if you search rough my posts from 3 years ago it will validate this :)

Decided on a southerly , bought one.

Now stepped away from it to go sailing and hopefully fulfil a dream rather than continue in e city.
 
Oscarpop said:
Sorry, I think I may be an exception to your theory.

Was a had a successful business in the city.

Spent a very long time researching boats ( I think if you search rough my posts from 3 years ago it will validate this :)

Decided on a southerly , bought one.

Now stepped away from it to go sailing and hopefully fulfil a dream rather than continue in e city.
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I don't have a theory; I just was sharing my personal experience, where 'rich city types' who were time poor tended to go for something mainstream and (very) off the shelf, and those that had more time, tended to get very involved in the whole process of choosing and speccing a boat, and for some (although by no means all) seem to find this the most enjoyable part of ownership.

This was in response to the comment posted by jumbleduck, who seemed to suggest that such people just chuck a suitcase of cash at a yachtbroker and tell them to come up with something good (I've no doubt that happens with big Mobos, as I've seen it happen at close quarters) .
 
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