Why Ferro Boats Have A Bad Reputation

CodStewart

CodStewart

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I know of one other poster in this forum who has a ferro boat. Wanting to catch up, I just did a search. However, it appears that CharlesM's last post was in May, and was titled, "Hurricane Holes in the Virgin Islands'.
Hmmmmm!
 
Do they? that's a new one on me? I would give serious consideration to one if I was in the market for a boat. I know that there are a lot of rough looking ones out there that have been somebodies project, who has perhaps run short of funds, or maybe been lacking in the necessary skills to do a proper job of them, but on the other hand I have also seen some crackers!
 
Thank you very much for that. I have a few books on ferro-cement boatbuilding that I was about to try and sell, and here you are trying to destroy the market.
 
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Thank you very much for that. I have a few books on ferro-cement boatbuilding that I was about to try and sell, and here you are trying to destroy the market.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I did try to inject a modicum of balance to the notion /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I think they are all concerned with building ferro boats, but I'll have a look. I could be very unkind and say there was no market for books on ferro-cement boat maintainence because, although plenty were started, not many boats were completed!
 
I have the following books for sale:-

"Practical Ferro-cement Boatbuilding" by Jay R. Benford. Publ: International Marine Publishing Co
"Cruising Boats - Sail & Power" by Jay R. Benford. Published by the author
"The Sailing Seventies - Ferro-cement Catalogue". Samson Marine Design Enterprises
"The Sailing Seventies - Designs, Engines, Chandlery. Rigging etc".Samson Marine Design Enterprises
"Fitting Out Ferro-cement Hulls" by Robert Tucker. Publisher: Adlard Coles

£5 each plus p&p or all five of them for £20 plus p&p
 
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there was no market for books on ferro-cement boat maintainence because, although plenty were started, not many boats were completed!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say not many on maintenance because .... what maintenance???? FC hulls are the ultimate in low maintenance!
 
Love the title, but too tired to make innuendos.

It is a fact that ferro gives fantastic value for money, I appreciate that there is no quality control on "home grown jobs", but there are craft out there with hulls built professionally that represent great value.

I used to have an old boat at Maldon and was near one fine ferro craft (can't remember if it was Ironestone?Lodestone?) I used to drool over it, then it sold, then a few weeks ago I saw it up for sale at a wickedly low price for what it represented.

Remember the pics at the time you got yours, lovely craft!
 
I have had a ferro hartley for about 7-8 years now and in process of repairing hull and have done lots of rearch. Have found some new repair products which seem interesting but not used yet.

At the mo concentrating on my new steel for crusing and planing to repair hull of hartley to use as base in KZN while I cruse mynuyot in Indian Ocean over to OZ in a year or three.

Can swap notes if you like.
 
If a ferro hull has been laid up incorectly, which is eassy to do if the ratios or mixing is not correct, the hull in this case is more or less suited as scrap. It is very difficult to detect for a purchaser or a survey the condition or the mix as it is mostly set in concrete so to speak. Some surveyors will not survey a ferro hull for fear of giving wrong advise. However a rule of thumb which some surveyors will go buy and others say is a load of hogwash, if the hull has survived in the water for 10 years and this can be proven, the chances are that it will continue to perform well for many years to come. Be more wary of a newer hull or a recently launched hull that has been sitting in someones back lawn for decades.

There is a cause for concern about the integrity of any ferro hull and this as well as many hulls being amatuer built is the main reason wether right or wrong as to why there is little demand in the second hand boat market hence the low price for second hand floating foot paths.
 
iI don´t know if we are supposed to treat this seriously or not, but being bad at one-liners, like most forumites, I will try it.
Ferro cement boats have a bad rep for three reasons. These are mostly historic; that is , they used to be true, but may not still be true.
First. There is no easy way to establish the build quality of the armature after it has been plastered. Only a survey before plastering can do this.
Second. It was very common to start a project that was too big for the builders budget and ability. These were sometimes finished very badly, as the easiest way to recoup the investment was to finish it and sell it.
These are perhaps no longer valid reasons. It is about twenty years since ferro went out of fashion, and any boat built then that is still sailing, and perhaps has an Atlantic crossing or two on its CV, is probably not too bad
Third. It is easy to make a small repair in ferro, but to guarantee the integrity of a major repair is an act of faith. There are few boatyards who will undertake it, and insurance companies have been forced to write off hulls which would be repairable in other mediums, for the want of anyone who will´guarantee´the repair. This has led them to be unwilling to insure concrete boats. This is the only valid reason for the discount in their price.
If you want to go Blue water sailing, I would recommend ferro. It is hard to get insurance for blue water anyway, so it doesn´t matter if your boat is ferro, and as they are so cheap, if you sink one, you can just buy another!
 
I have a lot of pics of my hartley before and during the removal of the damage and cancer. Let me know and I can put some on my web site for you.

Also if you email me I can discuss how I intend to procees to repair amd repaint and what I intend to do to prevent the cancer occuring again
 
I know nothing of Ferro...Cept to say when once tempted to buy a "shattered dream" Good Knowing friend said"You can tell if its bad when your foot goes through one day...Also on the subject of Floating concrete I can see from here a section of "Mulberry Harbour" thats been in and survived the waters from around D Day !944!! so well built and constucted I guess the Proofs in the Pudding...So to speak......
 
There used to be a firm called Windboats Ltd, of Wroxham, Norfolk and they built ferro-cement boats. They used to exhibit at the Boat Show and were said to invite people to bash the f-c hulls with a hammer to show how strong they were. Their best looking offering was the Endurance class. Must be a lot still around if they were as well built as Windboats claimed.Anyone got one?

Properly constructed ferro-cement hulls would probably have been more popular if fibreglass hadn't come along.
 
Concrete is massively strong in compression, but relatively weak on its own in tension. Hence the need for steel reinforcement.
This can be taken one step further for bridges and other 'simple' structures involving beams by pre-stressing the structure (ie putting a very high tensile load on the steel by attempting to 'stretch' it) before pouring the concrete around it. After the concrete has set, the tension on the steel is released, and the concrete beam is then effectively in compression.

This would be rather difficult to do for the hull of a yacht though...... hence why there is a complex net work of steel bars and mesh forming the shape and framework.
Although I am a great fan of ferro boats - I have sailed on a few, including a 19 tonne 39' ferro Colin Archer across Biscay, and in the Windies - I do have to admit that their resistance to concentrated impact loads appears to be relatively poor. Although one could argue that the same applies for all other materials apart from say steel and aluminium......
In the past few years, in the tail end of hurricanes here, various boats have either been washed ashore, or disappeared out to sea.
I know of a ferro boat and a single chine ply/epoxy boat (both around 37' LOA) that came ashore (in different years) on the same sandy beach (they did not have to bounce over rocks) after their moorings parted in Carlisle Bay. The sea conditions in both instances would have been similar. The plywood boat had a couple of small holes / fractures in the hull that were relatively easily repaired. The ferro boat had extensive cracks all over the starboard side of the hull (where she was pounding on the beach)and was subsequently written off - I think as much as possible of the interior was salvaged, and then the hull was literally broken up and taken away in a skip.

To anyone contemplating buying a ferro boat - they are very strong (usually!), can be very comfortable in a seaway, however like with all other boats they have their weaknesses along with their strengths.
I think it would be very difficult to justify building a new ferro cement yacht today - you might as well spend a bit more and build a steel yacht instead. Especially since the advent of modern CAD / CAM techniques where (eg) all the frames and shell plates for a steel boat can be cut out by a plasma cutter using data supplied by computer from the Design Office.
It is then 'just' a case of setting it all up, and welding the bits together!
 
Ferro cement boats are crucially formed from two materials. Not a case of 'reinforcing the concrete'.

Cement (Not concrete, which contains agregate) is as you say excellent in compression.

Steel is excellent in tension.

It is the <u>combining</u> of these two materials that produces the hull. It is important to have a very high steel to cement ration in the finished hull - not 'just enough to hold it together'.

I agree, if you hit a Ferro boat hard enough it will shatter. But then it's a <u>simple</u> task to remove the shattered cement, reshape the steel work and replace the cement. Quite cheap to do, and will achieve an excellent result. Unlike a GRP boat that would have to be written off.

I suspect that the boat that was 'written off' as you mention was due to a lack of knowledge or time to effect a repair. As always, FC construction remains labour-intensive.
 
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