Why fairleads?

[[3889]]

Just been watching the Sunbeam 36.1 review on YMs Youtube channel ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y00UJjvu5w0) and notice (about 1 minute in) that the cleats are set into the toerail . This design 1. prevents line wear at the fairlead and 2. means less line is needed to moor up as you don't waste a couple of metres twixt fairlead to cleat and back.
Any reason why the Sunbeam design is the exception rather than the rule?

 

[lpdsn]

Just been watching the Sunbeam 36.1 review on YMs Youtube channel ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y00UJjvu5w0) and notice (about 1 minute in) that the cleats are set into the toerail . This design 1. prevents line wear at the fairlead and 2. means less line is needed to moor up as you don't waste a couple of metres twixt fairlead to cleat and back.
Any reason why the Sunbeam design is the exception rather than the rule?

No idea about the Sunbeam, but I've sailed on other boats without fairleads. The early Dehlers for a start, plus several Swedish boats. Maybe it's a practice more common in the Baltic and the designer has been influenced by that.

 

[sailorman]

A Fairlead is just what its called a "Fairlead" for the warp, the toe rail cleats are just a cost saving exercise

 

[bitbaltic]

A Fairlead is just what its called a "Fairlead" for the warp, the toe rail cleats are just a cost saving exercise

Exactly that. Many modern boats, mine included, have cleats bolted to the toerail. This is a cost saving vs bolting to the deck. Older/traditional designs have deck cleats hence the need for fairleads.

 

[prv]

Exactly that. Many modern boats, mine included, have cleats bolted to the toerail. This is a cost saving vs bolting to the deck.

So why are cleats on the deck preferable to cleats on the gunwale?

Ariam has all six mooring cleats right on the gunwale, so lines can come straight to the cleat without any chafe anywhere. I can't see any problems with this arrangement.

Kindred Spirit had a mixture - bow and stern samson posts mounted centrally with fairleads for the lines, plus a previous owner had bolted a pair of cleats onto the top of the toe-rail at the bow. This worked ok, but the home-berth mooring lines got rather worn where they passed round the fairleads.

Pete

 

[VicS]

The purpose of a fairlead surely is to lead the warp onto the cleat at the correct angle ?

 

[sailorman]

The purpose of a fairlead surely is to lead the warp onto the cleat at the correct angle ?

also alleviating shock loads directly onto said cleat

 

[Resolution]

So why are cleats on the deck preferable to cleats on the gunwale?



Pete

I don't think they ever were. Just easier to build a strong mounting through the deck than screwed into the gunwale. I suspect the real difference now is that with better engineered fibreglass deck/hull joins, it is possible to make space for a through fitting right out at the edge.

On my ten year old Sabre I have closed fairleads at the stern and amidships. Beautiful s/s castings, but a real pain in use. I would much prefer simple cleats on the edge.

 

[NormanS]

There's nothing wrong with either, but remember that with a fairlead and then a cleat, the fairlead, unless the lead is in an absolute straight line with the cleat, is taking some of the load off the cleat. Seems like a good idea.

 

[Wansworth]

Separate fairleads are essential as in certain circumstances a rope has to be adjusted as in say moored to a Wall where a rope sirect to the cleat would be impractical....

 

[VicS]

with a fairlead and then a cleat, the fairlead, unless the lead is in an absolute straight line with the cleat, is taking some of the load off the cleat.

Very little I would think in most cases. What ever tension there is in a warp will be applied to the cleat, less a little bit for friction.

However it does underline the need for the fairleads to be sturdy and strongly mounted. In the extreme case of say a spring turning through nearly 180° in the fairlead the load on the fairlead will be almost double the tension in the warp.

 

[[3889]]

Separate fairleads are essential as in certain circumstances a rope has to be adjusted as in say moored to a Wall where a rope sirect to the cleat would be impractical....

Why? The rope will leave the cleat directly towards the mooring point. If that is angled upward I see no difference to the upward pull of a line passing through a fairlead - if that fitting can resist this load then so can a cleat in the same position. The line length remains adjustable.

I take the point about the fairlead taking some load off the cleat.

 

[rivonia]

Interesting topic. When we were in KGM marina in North Cyprus during the bad weather- three yachts had the fairleads ripped out? We on our Cat do not have any fairleads and wonder like the OP why some do and some do not have them fitted.

 

[geem]

Prout snowgoose 37 has no fairleads and no problem. 11years of sailing without them any never realised I was at a disadvantage! Cleats are so strong you could pick the boat up with them

 

[bitbaltic]

So why are cleats on the deck preferable to cleats on the gunwale?

Don't know that they are. I reckon toerail cleats would be cheaper for the manufacturers and that was the only thing I meant to say. The advantages (or otherwise) I can't comment on as, as I say, my boat only has toerail cleats anyhow.

Cheers

 

[NormanS]

Very little I would think in most cases. What ever tension there is in a warp will be applied to the cleat, less a little bit for friction.

However it does underline the need for the fairleads to be sturdy and strongly mounted. In the extreme case of say a spring turning through nearly 180° in the fairlead the load on the fairlead will be almost double the tension in the warp.

You are trying to have it both ways, and failing.

 

[prv]

Don't know that they are. I reckon toerail cleats would be cheaper for the manufacturers and that was the only thing I meant to say.

OK. Usually when someone says something is a money-saving exercise, the implication is that it's inferior to the more expensive option.

For what it's worth, having seen the structure in some detail, I think my bow and stern cleats are more strongly mounted on the gunwale (where they go through both the hull and the deck mouldings) than they would be on deck.

Pete

 

[VicS]

You are trying to have it both ways, and failing.

No. The load on the cleat will not much reduced IMO but the load on the fairlead could be up to nearly double that.

 

[Simondjuk]

Not sure it matters either way. About the only benefit I can think up which fairleads provide is that if you have no option other than to run your shorelines out at a more obtuse angle from the boat than ideal, any snatch loadings aren't fed into the deck cleats perpendicular to their long, and hence stronger, axis.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Not sure it matters either way. About the only benefit I can think up which fairleads provide is that if you have no option other than to run your shorelines out at a more obtuse angle from the boat than ideal, any snatch loadings aren't fed into the deck cleats perpendicular to their long, and hence stronger, axis.

The roots of why we have fairleads might easily go back to how boats were constructed fifty or more years ago. Cleats were much more easily (read cheaply?) and strongly mounted on the deck. You needed a fairlead to get the mooring line to get anywhere near the cleat or bitts without fouling things. If you think about wooden boat construction, it would be very difficult to bolt cleats onto the toe rail. You would also be introducing a potential source of leaks onto the beam shelf and stressing one of the areas that it's most challenging to avoid deck leaks in. As others have pointed out, with modern yacht construction, these reasons are gone.

However before fairleads are dismissed completely, there is one advantage in having them that I can think of. We have two cleats and a windlass on the foredeck. Using the fairleads means that lines from one side can go to any of these three fixtures. (Remembering that it's not good practice to leave loaded lines on a windlass!)