Why are YBW article-downloads so damned expensive??

[Greenheart]

As I said a lot of assumptions here, I am very happy to talk through it at Southampton if you are coming to the show.

Don't forget, we only want to look again at old articles. It's not our business to criticise IPC policy - but we can have our say, ad nauseum, if we're priced-out of reading faded old journalism whose authors are sailing in heaven now, but whose writing is in IPC's paws.

We might be happy to believe the current £6.95 fee is precisely appropriate and necessary, to run the electronic reproduction of archived articles, if you tell is that is so...and if you say so, we may believe that at the present rate, you find it satisfactorily remunerative...

...but that won't mean any more of us use the service! Over fifty replies to this thread, in eighteen hours...I'd call that a rising tide of discontent...but enjoy your weekend, too.

 

[maxi77]

Ok so lets put all of our content on the web for free....oh and lets not pay the journos as I am sure they would happily write for free if it appears in the electronic version.....

Ever heard of VAT? Apples Cut? software licences? Just a few things that need to be considered when publishing stuff on line (the paid for stuff)

As I said a lot of assumptions here, I am very happy to talk through it at Southampton if you are coming to the show.

Hey ho, to far from Portugal, and no I am not saying it must be free, but charging more for the electronic version than the paper version because of VAT is insulting. Yes I am aware of the hidden costs but many of them apply to the paper version to.

To give an example I subscribe to a newspaper electronically and get the actual paper, and they charge a lot less than the paper version. I am happy and they seem to be too. The real test is now that getting the paper version of your publication is impractible do I subcribe to your electronic version and the answer is no I don't, but if you had charged less perhaps I might.

I buy books and music electronically and am quite happy with the service but the suppliers I use do not try to charge more than the hard copy and with Amazon own the right to read for ever whatever reading hardware I have

 

[andymcp]

Ok so lets put all of our content on the web for free....oh and lets not pay the journos as I am sure they would happily write for free if it appears in the electronic version.....

Ever heard of VAT? Apples Cut? software licences? Just a few things that need to be considered when publishing stuff on line (the paid for stuff)

As I said a lot of assumptions here, I am very happy to talk through it at Southampton if you are coming to the show.

I don't think the *general* view is that copyright material from paid journos should be free, just that the price point might be wrong. I would think that alone is very good feedback, since establishing that content is of sufficient quality or usefulness to generate income is normally the hard part.

As I said before, IPC have an incredible asset in the range of reviews and articles stored (particularly given that a 25-year old review is still valid if that boat is the one that a buyer is looking at today), and one that deserves payment. But knowing the background costs for electronic (paid) distribution of licensed content as I do, I am surprised at the unit costs currently in place. We sell access to digitised content from libraries far smaller than IPC have, at price points that are lower, and have the same (possibly even higher per-unit) costs for preparation, maintenance, hosting etc etc etc.

But here isn't the place to discuss business models. Probably the only useful feedback I can give is that if the price point were lower (IMHO, circa £1 - £2.50 per unit) I'd be a far larger consumer of paid single-article content than at present.

 

[Me_has_a_Boat]

Ok so lets put all of our content on the web for free....oh and lets not pay the journos as I am sure they would happily write for free if it appears in the electronic version.....

IPC has to decide whether it is running the business for it's own benefit or for the employees. Sounds harsh, and probably difficult with a boot in each camp - but (and not just at IPC) Journalists do seem (on average) rather set in their ways, even to point (IMO) of adopting a King Canute style approach to the tide of technology / progress. Kinda like a flashback in attitude to the more traditional (and long gone) industries of the past.

Of course the Journos would not write for free (to IPC), but for many things someone would (or at least cheaper than at present). and they will, if not for IPC then elsewhere.

At the moment IPC holds the ring - which means they are in pole position to set the rules, but that won't last.

Ever heard of VAT? Apples Cut? software licences? Just a few things that need to be considered when publishing stuff on line (the paid for stuff)

What's VAT? . Like every business there are always lots of things (and expenses) to factor in......IPC are not re-inventing the wheel (hopefully not!), just need to decide how to move the wheel from the traditional handcart to something that can use the new fangled motorway (internet). Nothing wrong with the wheel .

BTW I wouldn't take all this "advice" to heart - it's just a (good) sign that IPC have customers who actually care about the product. One of the good things about both boats and forums is the cross section of people it brings together. from all backgrounds and walks of life. On here you will have folks who range from Captains of Industry to unemployed scallywags , who not only (mostly!) rub along happily enough but who each learn something from the other, both on boats and other stuff outside usual social circle..........and that includes folks who run businesses and folks who have experiance of dealing with large organisations at all levels - including the frustrations and the stupidities that involves .

My reading of what you have said is that plans are afoot Now, that could be the beggining of the next 20 years of PBO etc marching solidly into the future, a misguided venture pnto planet stupidity (hey, it happens - in a big organisation that usually takes a committee. or a moron in senior management. or both ).....or some minor tweaks (c) 2009 wrapped up in soft soap for the punters.........even if some think they have invented the next Facepoo.

But nonetheless change is good - and I wish you all well

As I said a lot of assumptions here, I am very happy to talk through it at Southampton if you are coming to the show.

Will you be charging £7?

 

[maxi77]

Will you be charging £7?

Is that what they charge these days for a Guinness?

 

[Zagato]

Ok so lets put all of our content on the web for free....oh and lets not pay the journos as I am sure they would happily write for free if it appears in the electronic version.....

Ever heard of VAT? Apples Cut? software licences? Just a few things that need to be considered when publishing stuff on line (the paid for stuff)

As I said a lot of assumptions here, I am very happy to talk through it at Southampton if you are coming to the show.

What an unprofessional sarcastic post that is, what a juvenile way to represent a company

 

[Richard Shead]

What an unprofessional sarcastic post that is, what a juvenile way to represent a company

That's your view, I have already explained I am very happy to talk it through and listen to views but sometimes the wrong assumptions need to be corrected.

Anyone that knows me in person or has met me on the stand knows I am more than happy to discuss anything rated to any of our mags and websites. I have even been know to offer up beer ..

I apologise if I come across sarcastic.

 

[Elemental]

What an unprofessional sarcastic post that is, what a juvenile way to represent a company

Regrettably, that was my response to Richard's post too. I'm guessing that it was a quick response not thought through before posting. I don't think anyone suggested it should all be for free, but it's a fact that there is a large amount of high quality material that is free. It's the huge differential that is the sticking point.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

That's your view, I have already explained I am very happy to talk it through and listen to views but sometimes the wrong assumptions need to be corrected.

Anyone that knows me in person or has met me on the stand knows I am more than happy to discuss anything rated to any of our mags and websites. I have even been know to offer up beer ..

I apologise if I come across sarcastic.

Fine to to talk at the show, but how about answering a few simple questions on the forum - this is a much bigger audience.

The simple view from a customer standpoint is that £7 does not represent good value. Your customers are giving you feedback and you are dismissing it.

Several business models have been suggested and you have not responded to them. You have just said that we do not understand your difficulties or have made wrong assumptions. Why not explain what the problem is then?

No need to simplify or patronise here. I have many years of experience in the software and distribution business, and I bet I am no different from many on the forum. Our combined experience of these matters will certainly outweigh that of the IPC management team involved in this.

 

[YachtAllegro]

If course they are reading it ...

all I will say is that all good things come to those who wait ....

On a different note if you were about to drop 100k. On a boat do you not think along with a survey 7 pounds is not too much for good report ? Just a question.

Richard's replies above suggest to me that this is already being considered, so I wouldn't be too rude to him, folks!

The question you posed, though, Richard, has already be answered - yes, I'd pay £7 for a boat report if I was seriously considering buying that boat. And, indeed, those are the only circumstances in which people answering this thread admit to having bought an article. But many of us seem to feel that there's a lot of other past content for which we'd be prepared to pay something, but significantly less than £7. If you have already digitised it, then granting access at a lower rate might open up a market which doesn't really exist currently, at essentially no additional cost to yourselves.

I guess you'd have to charge something for it - providing it for free supported by current advertising sounds attractive but I suspect you'd need a higher volume of downloads than you're realistically likely to get before advertisers would pay you any extra for it.

Certainly, I'm sure I'm not the only person with a large pile of (unindexed) back issues taking up space in the spare room. If I could access that content easily and reasonably cheaply online it would be well worth it in order to get part of my spare room back!

Cheers
Patrick

 

[Lakesailor]

- yes, I'd pay £7 for a boat report if I was seriously considering buying that boat.

I think the issue is that someone looking at older boats will have a few in mind and want to compare and contrast. 7 or 8 downloads starts to get expensive.

I think your point about greater sales from lower prices is very valid. I am not sure that Richard's having access to current figures has any relevance.
Like any business they need to make a punt and lower the price to see if there is a market there.

Course the "suits" want it all tied up in ribbon first.

 

[Richard Shead]

Ok, ok, ok....

Firstly (again) I apologise if you think my replies are flippant, sarcastic or patronising..

To give a little back ground, this forum is on in the back ground whilst I do the day job and if there is a question that needs answering or admin that needs doing it allows us to see and action this.

I will only ever reply in short sharp bursts, never chapter and verse, I save that for off line where appropriate. So my posts will always be short and to the point and quite often full of spelling mistakes as I may answer from my BB or iphone when on the move. This is something I do not apologise for that's just a hazard of modern technology and fat fingers.

Back to subject, I have tried to give a bit of background and I have also tried to explain subtly that we do listen and we do understand the digital landscape but there are limitations / restrictions that I am not going to discuss on an open forum.

So this really is the end of the conversation for me and the offer still applies for the meeting at SBS if you are there and I know for a fact that some of you are rustling amongst the rigging...

Finally can I ask you all kindly to read all the posts before accusing me of being sarcastic, juvenile and most importantly patronising.. etc.

Thank you and have a good weekend (again)

Cheers

 

[ctva]

...As I said a lot of assumptions here, I am very happy to talk through it at Southampton if you are coming to the show.

So the rest of the forum members who are interested in this topic are not worth talking to?

Sorry but contrary to popular opinion the world does not revolve around the Southampton Boat Show or the South Coast of England for that matter.

The question was asked on the forum, so answer it here please.

Oh and by the way, the pound shop analogy is good and yes there are plenty of great bargains there but also some dross.

 

[uxb]

No need to simplify or patronise here. I have many years of experience in the software and distribution business, and I bet I am no different from many on the forum. Our combined experience of these matters will certainly outweigh that of the IPC management team involved in this.

Maybe you should set up your own magazine and run it 'properly'?

 

[Richard Shead]

So the rest of the forum members who are interested in this topic are not worth talking to?

Sorry but contrary to popular opinion the world does not revolve around the Southampton Boat Show or the South Coast of England for that matter.

The question was asked on the forum, so answer it here please.

Oh and by the way, the pound shop analogy is good and yes there are plenty of great bargains there but also some dross.

I did not say that, I did say that I am not going to elaborate any more on an open forum, reading my posts carefully should give you an indication of what's ahead and that is my answer.

Yes I know there is more to SBS having been to virtually every single boat show in the UK and beyond. I just happen to be there and I know that a number of people who have posted some rather strong views on here will be in attendance.

You cant win on here.

 

[Greenheart]

Would be nice to hear an answer to my earlier ponderings...a) does the current cost of downloads reflect the cost of making them available this way, and b) is IPC perfectly content with the quantity of persons who are willing to shell out £7 for a few ancient pages?

Out of five-dozen responses in less than 24 hours, I don't believe even ONE contributor has suggested total satisfaction with the situation as it is, or stated any belief in the current service's value for money.

I'm glad to know the people in the office are aware of this very widespread dissatisfaction...but it's unfortunate for anyone who won't be at the boat show, that Mr Shead hasn't told us what the outlook is, for getting to read old articles without re-mortgaging first.

What is it possible to convey on a floating pontoon, that can't be said publicly, here on the forum?

 

[YachtAllegro]

reading my posts carefully should give you an indication of what's ahead and that is my answer

Come on, guys. Reading between the lines doesn't this suggest that this is something which is being looked at in one form or another, any solution would be IPC-wide, and therefore he's not able to write about it further at present. All credit to the man for coming on here to post an "official" view - you're not exactly encouraging him back, are you?!

Cheers
Patrick

 

[Zagato]

I apologise if I come across sarcastic.

No problem Richard, I can understand your position at the moment must be frustrating!

 

[Me_has_a_Boat]

You cant win on here.

Welcome to the forum

 

[Plevier]

Out of five-dozen responses in less than 24 hours, I don't believe even ONE contributor has suggested total satisfaction with the situation as it is, or stated any belief in the current service's value for money.

Five dozen + another 1.

Current price not acceptable, at £1 would have bought several boat tests etc.