Why are new boats not selling?

[Garold]

I really like Southerly yachts and so reports of their financial problems is disappointing.

However, more than this, it serves as a reminder that many boat manufacturers seem to be only a few cancelled orders away from possibly business ending financial problems.

I wonder if this doubt/worry is holding back new boat sales, more than any shortage of desire, or money.

In spite of the fact that contracts can protect ownership of the boat through its build, who would be happy to get a half built boat?

I suspect that doubt about the financial stability of boat builders (and consequent low order numbers) will now last a lot longer longer than this financial crisis.

Cheers

Garold

 

[dylanwinter]

I really like Southerly yachts and so reports of their financial problems is disappointing.

However, more than this, it serves as a reminder that many boat manufacturers seem to be only a few cancelled orders away from possibly business ending financial problems.

I wonder if this doubt/worry is holding back new boat sales, more than any shortage of desire, or money.

In spite of the fact that contracts can protect ownership of the boat through its build, who would be happy to get a half built boat?

I suspect that doubt about the financial stability of boat builders (and consequent low order numbers) will now last a lot longer longer than this financial crisis.

Cheers

Garold

because fibre glass is such a brilliant material

it is immortal

the hull on the old slug when I sold it on at 50 years old was as good as the day it popped out of the mold in 1964

A top spec second hand centaur today for £14,000 would be better in so many ways than when it first rolled off the production line

the manufacturers filled the market for trailer sailers, then 25 footers and now the market for 30 footers is saturated

even if you are a rich bloke there is no real reason to buy a new boat

it does mean that boat design has levelled off

the last innovation was the sugar scoop stern - which is wonderfully practical but really rather ugly

Dylan

 

[Victoria Sponge]

I really like Southerly yachts and so reports of their financial problems is disappointing.

However, more than this, it serves as a reminder that many boat manufacturers seem to be only a few cancelled orders away from possibly business ending financial problems.

I wonder if this doubt/worry is holding back new boat sales, more than any shortage of desire, or money.

In spite of the fact that contracts can protect ownership of the boat through its build, who would be happy to get a half built boat?

I suspect that doubt about the financial stability of boat builders (and consequent low order numbers) will now last a lot longer longer than this financial crisis.

Cheers

Garold

I agree that Southerly yachts are very appealing, but they cost a fortune! For most people I would suggest that a brand new Southerly is something to dream about and reality is probably a much cheaper boat.

 

[sailorman]

http://www.gunfleetmarine.com/

 

[dylanwinter]

http://www.gunfleetmarine.com/

that is on heck of a picture

boat is too big though

just managing the catering would be a mission

D

 

[sailorman]

that is on heck of a picture

boat is too big though

just managing the catering would be a mission

D

One, would have staff, to cover those mundane jobs.
She is undergoing final commissioning & sea trials from Fox`s marina
I was allowed o/b last Friday for a poke about. an all East Coast boat, built in Colchester by local crafrsmen. 2 1/2 yrs after the Co started from a cold start to building a 58 footer

 

[Sans Bateau]

I am surprised at some of the premium boat yards who are finding things difficult. Yes Southerly boats are expensive, they appeal to the dreams of a lot of people, but the people who buy them, the socio economic group will be a group who have money. If you sell a cheap product, you are appealing to people on a tight budget, if your product is expensive you are appealing to people who have money.

 

[rwoofer]

2 1/2 yrs after the Co started from a cold start to building a 58 footer

Yes, but when you have the money, knowledge and contacts of Richard Matthews (hopefully the correct name, the ex-Oyster owner) behind it, it is no surprise at all. What amazes me is that his sell-out contract of Oyster allows him to setup so soon in direct competition. Someone didn't write that contact well.

 

[sailorman]

Yes, but when you have the money, knowledge and contacts of Richard Matthews (hopefully the correct name, the ex-Oyster owner) behind it, it is no surprise at all. What amazes me is that his sell-out contract of Oyster allows him to setup so soon in direct competition. Someone didn't write that contact well.

He probably wrote the contract himself

 

[Roberto]

I wonder if this doubt/worry is holding back new boat sales, more than any shortage of desire, or money.

I think one of the reasons is the massive drop in Second hand market, of quality boats as well.
I was talking to an Amel owner, someone with very few financial constraints who during the years kept upgrading with newer models, i.e. selling a 2-3 year old model to buy the new/bigger one.
He reckoned if earlier an upgrade might have cost him some hundred thousands euro, today it's a completely different story: one must be prepared to throw out of the window more than half a million every few years to buy new.
There are of course people that can do that, but let's say enthusiasm may not be that high ?

 

[[2574]]

I am surprised at some of the premium boat yards who are finding things difficult. Yes Southerly boats are expensive, they appeal to the dreams of a lot of people, but the people who buy them, the socio economic group will be a group who have money. If you sell a cheap product, you are appealing to people on a tight budget, if your product is expensive you are appealing to people who have money.

But it is a running theme. Recently we have heard of premium scandinavian builders also feeling the pressure, YM this month reports on "Swedish yard Najad goes bust" and this is the third or fourth of the kind that have hit the wall. It's tough out there.

 

[vyv_cox]

It was posted quite recently that new boat sales are very healthy, it's secondhand sales that are slow. It is clear that the luxury end of the new yacht market is struggling, for a variety of reasons, but the AWB end seems to be thriving.

 

[maby]

I think it is more of a problem for the high end manufacturers than for the rest. Beneteau, Jeanneau, Hanse etc. all have products covering a wide range of requirements and if the sales volumes for their big boats drop, they can keep going on the entry level sales. The Najads and Southerlys of this world only sell a handfull of boats each year at £500k or more each. They have no entry level products to fall back on and their turnover can only drop in multiples of half a million or more - makes them a lot more vulnerable to economic downturns.

 

[maby]

It was posted quite recently that new boat sales are very healthy, it's secondhand sales that are slow. It is clear that the luxury end of the new yacht market is struggling, for a variety of reasons, but the AWB end seems to be thriving.

I think you'll find that the dealers are discounting very heavily to keep turnover up. We've recently upgraded, buying a mid-range Beneteau. We had been talking to all the big AWB manufacturers and one of the others came back to us offering a £40k discount on an already significantly discounted price if we would go to them instead.

 

[sailorman]

that is on heck of a picture

boat is too big though

just managing the catering would be a mission

D

http://www.gunfleetmarine.com/news/first-time-out-the-new-gunfleet-58/

 

[Blueboatman]

Surely 'we' are 'debating' without actually knowing the figures for achieved sales new?
Then there's the dilemma of running the big production lines/ tool investments into the ground making minimal profit on lower sized boats that may still sell.. And in anticipation of what exactly further down the line?
It's always been tough. ESP if you have to answer to outside 'investors' too..
The charter market allowed some expansion/ economies of scale but how many boats can te charter markets use these days?
Emerging markets? Sunny summers? Cheaper moorings? Cheaper raw materials? Wishing in the wind ?
I would not fancy being a volume producer at all.
The only thing I can think of that new boat sales have going for them is, a temporary massive discount to shift stock, and some nice new designs that make some 10yr old design packages look a tad dated..
At least in the States good ol hurricanes come along and reduce the supply of boats regularly..

 

[Victoria Sponge]

I am surprised at some of the premium boat yards who are finding things difficult. Yes Southerly boats are expensive, they appeal to the dreams of a lot of people, but the people who buy them, the socio economic group will be a group who have money. If you sell a cheap product, you are appealing to people on a tight budget, if your product is expensive you are appealing to people who have money.

Yes, of course you're right, but perhaps people just don't have so much money at present. After all Southerly yachts are very expensive and much as I like them you can have as much fun and pay a fraction of the price.

 

[doris]

I think you'll find that the dealers are discounting very heavily to keep turnover up. We've recently upgraded, buying a mid-range Beneteau. We had been talking to all the big AWB manufacturers and one of the others came back to us offering a £40k discount on an already significantly discounted price if we would go to them instead.

Wow. I know the spread between new and second is way too wide and this goes some way to explaining things. Since I have been involved with 'yachts', some 25 years, there has never been such a spread. Either new price has to fall or second hand prices have to rise. Neither seem that likely but if you are saying 30-40% discounts are being offered on new. QED?
Is it fair to say a mid range Benny starts at £150k. 20% discount makes it 120 and another 40 off gives 80. 150 to 80......is this roughly the range you are talking about? If so the big builders must be producing at a loss just to keep ticking over.

 

[maby]

Wow. I know the spread between new and second is way too wide and this goes some way to explaining things. Since I have been involved with 'yachts', some 25 years, there has never been such a spread. Either new price has to fall or second hand prices have to rise. Neither seem that likely but if you are saying 30-40% discounts are being offered on new. QED?
Is it fair to say a mid range Benny starts at £150k. 20% discount makes it 120 and another 40 off gives 80. 150 to 80......is this roughly the range you are talking about? If so the big builders must be producing at a loss just to keep ticking over.

I was talking more in the £200k range - low forty foot range. Don't forget that the Beneteau range extends to 58 foot and over 400,000 euros (plus VAT).

The £40k extra discount that the dealer found was on a boat with a list price of close to £250k that had already been discounted to around £220k.

 

[Tranona]

Wow. I know the spread between new and second is way too wide and this goes some way to explaining things. Since I have been involved with 'yachts', some 25 years, there has never been such a spread. Either new price has to fall or second hand prices have to rise. Neither seem that likely but if you are saying 30-40% discounts are being offered on new. QED?
Is it fair to say a mid range Benny starts at £150k. 20% discount makes it 120 and another 40 off gives 80. 150 to 80......is this roughly the range you are talking about? If so the big builders must be producing at a loss just to keep ticking over.

At Southampton last year I was offered the last of a current model stock boat with just about every conceivable extra for just over £80k. Its replacement model (not yet built) and not hugely different with the same goodies was over £100k list, but 8% discount without even asking. And I was offered part exchange on my existing boat at a price similar to the asking price for the same boat on the open market.