Why are marinas allowed to charge for nothing ??

[NUTMEG]

My berth prices by the foot. I have a CW28'6" moter sailer. The yard have charged me for a 29' boat so I am now looking for a 6" bowsprit. I am paying for those 6" and feel duty bound to use them! Where can I get hold of a very thin foresail?

 

[Robin]

I removed some decals from my boat partly because they were as ugly as sin but also because they were a bit of a giveaway.
I did push my luck with one harbourmaster, who had just taken dues from a smaller boat alongside us on the visitors mooring. I announced that my boat was even smaller. It must be my honest face.

When we had a Sun LEgende 41 (and it had graphics on the stern quarter proclaiming that) we were amazed to see another identical boat labelled 'Sun Legende 40'. some months later we met them in harbour smewhere and saw that they had cut the pulpit and made it into a jump through type but shorter and rearranged it to remove 1ft , apparently it saved them quite a lot of money on their home base marina fees.

 

[Resolution]

Re read the OP. Start with the expression "it's a rip off" then move to his acknowledgement that the T&C s of his marina are based on charging for LOA, which any fool kno includes bits hung on the back as well as bits sticking out in front. And how many years had he been getting away with being undercharged?
Clyst, do you even feel slightly ashamed at your attitude?

 

[Tranona]

Which is fine as general guidance, but I think would be even more troublesome as a basis of payment.

Common in the Med to charge by the type of berth so peeps with a 12m boat pay the same as a 10.1m - they usually go in 2m increments, but berths over 12m usually also have a premium. Hence the popularity of 12m boats (also rule changes for RCD come into effect at 12m). So many things to worry about when buying a boat even before the arguments about the upholstery!

 

[Jamesuk]

So how would you prefer the charges to be calculated?

It could be calculated based on your actual wealth ))))) surely that is only fair.

If i work my whole life and get to payout 50% of my total wealth to buy a yacht then surely i should pay a lot less than someone who paid out 1% of there total wealth who is half my age to buy the same yacht )))))

 

[[3889]]

Its not length that is the biggest issue with marina charges.
It's paying the same when single handing, arriving at 9PM and leaving at 6AM , as the same sized boat, 6 on board, staying 24 hours. Free market arguments hold no water. Two marinas near to me have essentially the same operating costs but one charges almost 3 times more for an annual contract because of its locale. The Local Authority harbour charges come nowhere near accounting for this discrepancy.

 

[ParaHandy]

Interesting ... 6 years ago marina charges were thought to be heading toward size groups. Gosport only had about 2 or 3 different sizes of pontoon finger so the resulting charges would have penalized small yachts and, especially, those on the lower end of the group (eg a 33' boat in a 33 to 39' group). Once you force out the smaller yachts, eventually the marina fails because very few can start sailing in a 39' yacht.

 

[Tranona]

Its not length that is the biggest issue with marina charges.
It's paying the same when single handing, arriving at 9PM and leaving at 6AM , as the same sized boat, 6 on board, staying 24 hours. Free market arguments hold no water. Two marinas near to me have essentially the same operating costs but one charges almost 3 times more for an annual contract because of its locale. The Local Authority harbour charges come nowhere near accounting for this discrepancy.

View attachment 42951

Are you suggesting a marina should charge by the hour, like a parking meter with surcharges for additional crew?

Location is a key benefit for a marina. Very strong correlation between location and prices if the marina is a commercial operation.

 

[[3889]]

Are you suggesting a marina should charge by the hour, like a parking meter with surcharges for additional crew?

Yes, if they wished to be fair. Not that that forms part of their raison d'être, of course.

Location is a key benefit for a marina. Very strong correlation between location and prices if the marina is a commercial operation.

It is. My point is that the location is not a product of the marina business, it is a natural phenomenon for which most marina businesses, IMO, do not contribute, yet they benefit from what is a common resource.
I don't make these points expecting anything to change, just to point out the flaws in some of the simplistic "It's their marina and they can do what they like." arguments.

 

[duncan99210]

I don't make these points expecting anything to change, just to point out the flaws in some of the simplistic "It's their marina and they can do what they like." arguments.

But it is their marina and they can do just as they please. The market will sort it out if they don't get the pricing right.....

 

[clyst]

It's often occurred to me that there is a case for marinas charging liveaboards more as they often get to use the facilities far more than others. Showers, loo's, car parks, post, etc etc.
Yes, I know that liveaboards may help improve security.
Swings and roundabouts I suppose.

liveaboards ? I don't think marinas would permit that .

 

[prv]

liveaboards ? I don't think marinas would permit that .

Some do, some don't. Quite a few officially don't, but turn a blind eye.

Pete

 

[Lakesailor]

Two marinas near to me have essentially the same operating costs but one charges almost 3 times more for an annual contract because of its locale. The Local Authority harbour charges come nowhere near accounting for this discrepancy.

My point is that the location is not a product of the marina business, it is a natural phenomenon for which most marina businesses, IMO, do not contribute,
............. the flaws in some of the simplistic "It's their marina and they can do what they like." arguments.

Let's see. How do you know their costs? Operating cost are only part of the equation. How did they finance the business or any development? Did their family own the site from way back or is it a new purchase?
The location is key to setting a price. Try finding a cheap house in the Lake District.

And yes, it is their business and they should set the fees at a level which sees them slightly under full. Absolutely no point in setting them low and turning away berth-holders whilst having a limited income.

For berth-holders it is a leisure pursuit. For marina operators it is a fickle business.

 

[Tomahawk]

liveaboards ? I don't think marinas would permit that .

Part of the question is down to council workers in the planning department.. They don't like the idea of people having somewhere to live and apply planning conditions to prevent pmanent liveaboard.

 

[awol]

Part of the question is down to council workers in the planning department.. They don't like the idea of people having somewhere to live and apply planning conditions to prevent pmanent liveaboard.

Or is it the council tax free aspect that they don't like - all the benefits of the local amenities without any contribution.

 

[SimbaDog]

Perhaps they should introduce parking meters at each berth

 

[Rigger Mortice]

liveaboards ? I don't think marinas would permit that .

From what we read here Brighton, for one, is full of them.

 

[clyst]

From what we read here Brighton, for one, is full of them.

Drop them an E mail and ask if it's ok to liveaboard in their marina . I did and got an absolute No as a reply .

 

[westernman]

Common in the Med to charge by the type of berth so peeps with a 12m boat pay the same as a 10.1m - they usually go in 2m increments, but berths over 12m usually also have a premium. Hence the popularity of 12m boats (also rule changes for RCD come into effect at 12m). So many things to worry about when buying a boat even before the arguments about the upholstery!

In "my" bit of the Med, they have always charge by length of boat - not by the type of berth. Also the length of boat has always been taken to be what is written on the registration document. Even in French marina's for yearly contracts where the length is stipulated as including all protruding bits as well.

In one marina on a yearly contract, I was paying for 15-16m, I was in a 18m berth, and I am 20.02m overall (they came and measured me!). They then moved me to an identical berth 3 slots further along. A guy in an old long keel yacht (with bow sprit) further down was complaining he was having trouble avoiding my bowsprit when leaving his berth (he would get blown down towards me, before working up enough steam to get enough steerage way - by three slots further along he was going fast enough to be comfortable).

I have always paid for whatever category my registered length (15.63m) put me in. The exceptions were Alcudia in Mallorca (wanted to charge me for 18m), and in Mahon Minorca where they charged for area (15.6 x 4.5m).

 

[prv]

Drop them an E mail and ask if it's ok to liveaboard in their marina . I did and got an absolute No as a reply .

So did a mate of mine when he wanted to live aboard in a yard near here. Yet the place has a number of very obvious liveaboard boats - one even has a kind of wooden patio at one end, with a barbecue, and a rotary clothesline on deck at the other end.

But if you ask them out of the blue, in an impersonal fashion, using a medium that makes a permanent record of their answer, they will tell you that liveaboards aren't allowed.

Pete