Who was the give way vessel?

[Aeolus]

I was sailing with genoa poled out, a very light wind directly from astern. Another sailing boat was approaching me from ahead and slightly to port. Both boats under sail. Eventually and just time i started my engine and manouvered to avoid a collision. The other boat didn't change course at all. Who should have been the give way vessel?

Forgot to say that my genoa was poled out to port and my main was down. The other boat had fore and mainsail up. I think that makes it that we were both on a starboard tack.

 

[jac]

Need more information.

was it port / starbard, windward / looard, either boat overtaking?

 

[bedouin]

I was sailing with genoa poled out, a very light wind directly from astern. Another sailing boat was approaching me from ahead and slightly to port. Both boats under sail. Eventually and just time i started my engine and manouvered to avoid a collision. The other boat didn't change course at all. Who should have been the give way vessel?

Forgot to say that my genoa was poled out to port and my main was down. The other boat had fore and mainsail up. I think that makes it that we were both on a starboard tack.

If both are on starboard then as windward boat you were give way

 

[macd]

Sounds like he was probably on starboard. If so, he was stand-on, whatever tack you were on. (If both on starboard, windward gives way). If he wasn't, what tack were you on?

 

[VicS]

I was sailing with genoa poled out, a very light wind directly from astern. Another sailing boat was approaching me from ahead and slightly to port. Both boats under sail. Eventually and just time i started my engine and manouvered to avoid a collision. The other boat didn't change course at all. Who should have been the give way vessel?

Forgot to say that my genoa was poled out to port and my main was down. The other boat had fore and mainsail up. I think that makes it that we were both on a starboard tack.

you dont say if you were on port or starboard tack.

If I interpret the situation correctly the other boat must have been close hauled on stbd tack.

If you were on port tack you were the "give way" vessel

If you were also on starboard tack then you were the "give way" vessel because you were the windward boat

Rule 12 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/281965/msn1781.pdf

 

[Aeolus]

That's what I belatedly thought - at the time i thought since he was approaching from port, that I was stand-on but subsequently realised that we were both on starboard tack. Hey ho! Fortunately no collision.

 

[VicS]

That's what I belatedly thought - at the time i thought since he was approaching from port, that I was stand-on but subsequently realised that we were both on starboard tack. Hey ho! Fortunately no collision.

Perhaps you are confused by the rules for two power driven vessels in a crossing situation ( Rule 15)

If you thought the skipper of the other boat said "Hey ho" I reckon you may have mis-heard

 

[prv]

That's what I belatedly thought - at the time i thought since he was approaching from port, that I was stand-on but subsequently realised that we were both on starboard tack. Hey ho! Fortunately no collision.

Why would him approaching from your port side have anything to do with it?

Pete

 

[RichardS]

you dont say if you were on port or starboard tack.

The OP says that "my genoa was poled out to port and my main was down". Doesn't that automatically mean he was on starboard tack or does the fact that he is on poled-out foresail mean that this is a more complex issue than I'm thinking, presumably as the wind could have been blowing from the port side if the genoa was poled out far enough. Would this then mean that he was on port tack even though the sail was in the starboard tack position?

As you can tell, I've never thought about this before.

Richard

 

[bedouin]

The OP says that "my genoa was poled out to port and my main was down". Doesn't that automatically mean he was on starboard tack or does the fact that he is on poled-out foresail mean that this is a more complex issue than I'm thinking, presumably as the wind could have been blowing from the port side if the genoa was poled out far enough. Would this then mean that he was on port tack even though the sail was in the starboard tack position?

As you can tell, I've never thought about this before.

Richard

I think that without the main being set you would take the side on which the genoa was set as indicating the tack, but the rules don't say so explicitly (but they do say that if you aren't sure you assume starboard, meaning there are situations when both vessels can be give way)

 

[VicS]

The OP says that "my genoa was poled out to port and my main was down". Doesn't that automatically mean he was on starboard tack or does the fact that he is on poled-out foresail mean that this is a more complex issue than I'm thinking, presumably as the wind could have been blowing from the port side if the genoa was poled out far enough. Would this then mean that he was on port tack even though the sail was in the starboard tack position?

As you can tell, I've never thought about this before.

Richard

I did not see that when I read the post. Perhaps adding that was his edit at 12 50, by which time I was laboriously typing my reply !

 

[macd]

The OP says that "my genoa was poled out to port and my main was down". Doesn't that automatically mean he was on starboard tack or does the fact that he is on poled-out foresail mean that this is a more complex issue than I'm thinking, presumably as the wind could have been blowing from the port side if the genoa was poled out far enough. Would this then mean that he was on port tack even though the sail was in the starboard tack position?

If the other boat was on starboard, which the OP states that it was, it doesn't matter one bit which tack the OP was on. He was windward. Whether on port or starboard, he gives way. (If on port because it's the 'inferior' tack; if on staboard because when tacks are equal, windward gives way.)
If the other boat had been on port, then the OP's being on starboard would have held sway, and he would have been stand-on.

(Like Vic, some of this only became clear to me with the OP's edit. But it was reasonable to infer from the original post that the other vessel was probably on starboard.)

 

[PaulRainbow]

I think that without the main being set you would take the side on which the genoa was set as indicating the tack, but the rules don't say so explicitly (but they do say that if you aren't sure you assume starboard, meaning there are situations when both vessels can be give way)

How so ?

If on different tacks Stb tack gives way.
If on the same tack the vessel to windward gives way.

Can't see how tow sailing vessels can both ever be give way.

 

[SteveSarabande]

How so ?

If on different tacks Stb tack gives way.
If on the same tack the vessel to windward gives way.

Can't see how tow sailing vessels can both ever be give way.

Wrong, starboard boat stands on

 

[PaulRainbow]

How so ?

If on different tacks Port tack gives way.
If on the same tack the vessel to windward gives way.

Can't see how two sailing vessels can both ever be give way.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Wrong, starboard boat stands on

Of course, fingers faster than brain.

 

[RichardS]

I did not see that when I read the post. Perhaps adding that was his edit at 12 50, by which time I was laboriously typing my reply !

Sorry Vic. I saw that you had quoted the OPs phrase so assumed that it was already there when you posted but perhaps it doesn't work like that.

Richard

 

[RichardS]

If the other boat was on starboard, which the OP states that it was, it doesn't matter one bit which tack the OP was on. He was windward. Whether on port or starboard, he gives way. (If on port because it's the 'inferior' tack; if on staboard because when tacks are equal, windward gives way.)
If the other boat had been on port, then the OP's being on starboard would have held sway, and he would have been stand-on.

Yes, I know that. However, I'm asking about a more unusual issue which I thought Vic was picking up ...... which is if you have a well-poled out headsail to Port but the wind is coming from over the Port aft quarter are you on Starboard tack (orientation of sail) or on Port tack (orientation of wind).

Richard

 

[JumbleDuck]

Can't see how tow sailing vessels can both ever be give way.

Sir needs to sail on some Scottish lochs with high hills and flukey winds. I can remember once, on a Sea Scout sailing course at Lochgoilhead, finding myself sailing head on for another boat when we were both beam reaching on starboard tack. Similar things happen on Loch Ken, where I sail now.

 

[bedouin]

How so ?

If on different tacks Stb tack gives way.
If on the same tack the vessel to windward gives way.

Can't see how tow sailing vessels can both ever be give way.

It can happen if both boats are on Port but the windward boat is running under spinnaker so the leeward can't tell which tack it is on.

The windward boat knows what is going on - so knows it is give way

The leeward boat can't tell what tack the windward boat is on so has to assume it is Starboard and so the leeward boat is give way too.