Who was right? (or wrong?)

[flaming]

Failure to make a protest is, I believe, an infringement of the rules in itself, so another competitor could have protested against him anyway.

Just noticed this. NOT the case.

Any boat can protest an incident it was a party to, or witnessed, but you would not get penalised for failing to protest.

 

[Fantasie 19]

Apologies - not a racer, but doesn't the "overtaking boat" rule also apply?

 

[flaming]

Apologies - not a racer, but doesn't the "overtaking boat" rule also apply?

That isn't a rule in the RRS, only Colregs. It's one of the very few areas where Colregs and RRS are substantially different.

 

[Fantasie 19]

That isn't a rule in the RRS, only Colregs. It's one of the very few areas where Colregs and RRS are substantially different.

So from previous conversations here am I right in thinking the Colregs take priority over any racing rules, so the "overtaking boat" rule would take precedence??

 

[flaming]

So from previous conversations here am I right in thinking the Colregs take priority over any racing rules, so the "overtaking boat" rule would take precedence??

RRS apply solely between boats who are racing, even if they are not racing in the same race. Part of agreeing to race is agreeing to be bound by the RRS.

If one or more of the boats in a situation is not racing, then Colregs apply between that boat and anything else. So if a cruising boat meets a racing boat then colregs apply.

Since this situation was between two boats who were racing colregs have diddly squat to do with it.

 

[TimBennet]

RRS apply solely between boats who are racing . . .

Unless amended by the Sailing Instructions. It's common on long races for the rules to be suspended after dark and all vessels sail by the ColRegs.

 

[Fantasie 19]

RRS apply solely between boats who are racing, even if they are not racing in the same race. Part of agreeing to race is agreeing to be bound by the RRS.

If one or more of the boats in a situation is not racing, then Colregs apply between that boat and anything else. So if a cruising boat meets a racing boat then colregs apply.

Since this situation was between two boats who were racing colregs have diddly squat to do with it.

Blimey.... it's a mine field out there...

 

[William_H]

Blimey.... it's a mine field out there...

Certainly many books have been written on how the ISAF and then national RRS rules work. The complexity is necessary to provide a definitive rule for every situation.
For us mere mortals mostly rules are simple and we can race with out being too concerned. Racing can be a lot of fun. I find firstly it gets me out ona regular basis where otherwise I might not go and secondly it cna be a huge satisfaction to sail next to a simialr boat hard on the wind and know you are doing allright. Or to retrieve a spin gybe the boat then harden up for a wind ward leg with a crew who work well while leaving it all to the last minute. It is even better if you can then watch another crew do the same thing and compare. You can't race your car on the roads it is ilegal but you can have a lot of fun racing your sail boat.
yes it is interesting that RRS in effect supercede the overtaking boat gives way rule for cruising/commercial. ie if the overtaking boat passes to leeward of you then when racing windward boat keeps clear. it does not work well where the overtaking boat is vastly bigger and faster than the indward boat as I found receently.
olewill

 

[Fantasie 19]

Certainly many books have been written on how the ISAF and then national RRS rules work. The complexity is necessary to provide a definitive rule for every situation.
For us mere mortals mostly rules are simple and we can race with out being too concerned. Racing can be a lot of fun. I find firstly it gets me out ona regular basis where otherwise I might not go and secondly it cna be a huge satisfaction to sail next to a simialr boat hard on the wind and know you are doing allright. Or to retrieve a spin gybe the boat then harden up for a wind ward leg with a crew who work well while leaving it all to the last minute. It is even better if you can then watch another crew do the same thing and compare. You can't race your car on the roads it is ilegal but you can have a lot of fun racing your sail boat.
yes it is interesting that RRS in effect supercede the overtaking boat gives way rule for cruising/commercial. ie if the overtaking boat passes to leeward of you then when racing windward boat keeps clear. it does not work well where the overtaking boat is vastly bigger and faster than the indward boat as I found receently.
olewill

Yup ... but racing rules or not - I'd not have been there even if I was racing, that's purely my view though based on a perception that more people are likely to know the overtaking rule than in depth racing regs.... because most people will be like me... always expect the Spanish Inquisition

 

[flaming]

Yup ... but racing rules or not - I'd not have been there even if I was racing, that's purely my view though based on a perception that more people are likely to know the overtaking rule than in depth racing regs.... because most people will be like me... always expect the Spanish Inquisition

Huh? If you are racing you are subject to the RRS. Saying "yes, but I didn't know the RRS, so I just applied the overtaking rule from colregs" really doesn't cut the mustard!

 

[mrming]

The racing rules are actually very simple - in practice it's rare to get deep into the technicalities. It might seem intimidating for beginners, but if you understand and apply these three things you'll rarely get into trouble:

Port and starboard
Windward boat
Mark room

Simples.

 

[Lakesailor]

Blimey.... it's a mine field out there...

That makes it even more dangerous.

 

[Fantasie 19]

The racing rules are actually very simple - in practice it's rare to get deep into the technicalities. It might seem intimidating for beginners, but if you understand and apply these three things you'll rarely get into trouble:

Port and starboard
Windward boat
Mark room

Simples.

I've got not axe to grind either way I was just interested - I've done my racing time and sail for relaxation and pleasure ...

From what's been said here by a pretty knowledgeable racer (my perception) viz. "this situation was between two boats who were racing colregs have diddly squat to do with it." I would say its far from simple..

Anyway 'nuff said from my perspective - interesting discussion though....

 

[mrming]

I've got not axe to grind either way I was just interested - I've done my racing time and sail for relaxation and pleasure ...

From what's been said here by a pretty knowledgeable racer (my perception) viz. "this situation was between two boats who were racing colregs have diddly squat to do with it." I would say its far from simple..

Anyway 'nuff said from my perspective - interesting discussion though....

The situation itself should be simple, but it seems to me like both boats were a little rusty on their rules.

If the OP's boat weren't sure they could complete their tack before hitting the zone they should duck the other boat's transom before tacking.

Subsequently the other boat should not have borne off into the OP as they have a duty to avoid a collision.

Coming into the windward mark on port is a dodgy business at the best of times. If the racing is close, finding a gap can be very difficult and it's all too easy to end up in the OP's situation. Brown trousers recommended for those that employ the strategy.