Who uses a Code Zero for cruising?

[Magnum]

As many will know sailing in the med can be quite frustrating at times. In summer there are many light wind days which often means motoring if you want to make decent progress.

So maybe a Code Zero might help?

http://www.uk.northsails.com/SAILS/...akers/tabid/26987/language/en-US/Default.aspx

"They provide additional power at approx. 40-degrees AWA in true wind speeds under 10 knots; conditions that are typically slow with conventional sails."

Interesting. Sounds like a regular med summer's day. But then ...

"Code Zeros have also proved effective for reaching in 15-25 knot winds at 80 to 90 degree apparent wind angles. Most boats sailing offshore can put a Code Zero to good use."

Reaching in 25 knots of wind with a sail that big? How can it work well in 2 very different conditions?

Would be grateful for any advice from Code Zero owners.

 

[flaming]

As many will know sailing in the med can be quite frustrating at times. In summer there are many light wind days which often means motoring if you want to make decent progress.

So maybe a Code Zero might help?

http://www.uk.northsails.com/SAILS/...akers/tabid/26987/language/en-US/Default.aspx

"They provide additional power at approx. 40-degrees AWA in true wind speeds under 10 knots; conditions that are typically slow with conventional sails."

Interesting. Sounds like a regular med summer's day. But then ...

"Code Zeros have also proved effective for reaching in 15-25 knot winds at 80 to 90 degree apparent wind angles. Most boats sailing offshore can put a Code Zero to good use."

Reaching in 25 knots of wind with a sail that big? How can it work well in 2 very different conditions?

Would be grateful for any advice from Code Zero owners.

Basically a code zero has to be quite strong, and quite flat, to be able to be used upwind in circa 10knots true. Especially as it is not set on a stay, so the luff tension you need is quite high! It's also not as big as your reaching Asymetric, so it quickly occured to offshore racers that this sail they had built to plug the gap between the jib and the 3A was also strong enough and of a suitable size to be used blast reaching in stronger conditions.

Now, code zeros actually exist because of racing rules. Essentially these rules limit the size of the jib you can have, either by actually limiting it - as in the Whitbread rules that first prompted EF to build one - or by punishing large genoas as in current IRC. So a code zero has to measure as a spinnaker, which means the draft has to be a certain percentage of the width, it has to be built out of spinnaker material etc.

You're not racing. You don't care that your sail is "legal". Before ordering a code zero, I'd give your favourite sailmaker a call and ask what they'd actually build for your requirements. My bet would be on a lightweight laminate thing cut as an insanely big genoa and mounted on a removeable furler, but sheeting to the spinnaker blocks.

 

[Seajet]

Flaming, +1, exactly what I've found... I have a tri-radial chute ( not spinnaker ) which allows closer pointing than some cruder 'ghoster' sails.

 

[TonyMS]

We´ve had what was sold as a Genniker from Arun sails for about 10 years. It is light (1 1-2 oz) cloth, as was relatively cheap.

We also have 2 asym spins on our cat. But a review of the log shows we use the genniker more than the spins. This is probably for 2 reasons:

*On a day when there is a chance of downwind legs, you can hoist it once, and then roll it in and out as often as need be without going forward

*It works well set wing and wing, which the asym spins don't, so we can go straight down wind instead of tacking downwind, which we often prefer, certainly if we are in a narrow channel

In practice the genniker is only useful with wind ahead of 90 degrees true in very light winds

We are just ordering a replacement as the sun has now rotted the original. That's the downside of not dropping it every time it's not in use.

Tony MS

 

[oldvarnish]

I've got one of these:

http://www.hood-sails.com/MP-G.htm


It's a very good halfway house between a chute and a genoa. It got me moving in very light airs.
There might be a picture somewhere on

www.sailblogs.com/member/wildsong

 

[rwoofer]

To add to others you also need to decide whether upwind is where your problem really is.

Generally in light winds, most boats power up fairly early due to apparent wind, but really suffer off the wind. So assuming a downwind problem, if you want to sail the angles then get the biggest assy you can. If you want to just head in a specific direction then go for a big traditional spinnaker (I think you ordered a spi pole on your Carbon mast).

Given your likely expenditure on a sail, I reckon you could persuade a sailmaker to come out with you and make a recommendation for your specific boat.

If upwind is really the problem, then code 0 is the answer.

 

[Magnum]

We've had issues with our G2. In a nutshell the "top-down" furling system that was recommended isn't working well and it certainly isn't a short-handed operation. The sail is too big and the initiation of the furl is far from straight forward in anything other than very light airs. I think we should have been sold the more usual Snuffer and that's what we are looking to get soon. I hope this means we'll use or G2 more often next season.

Which got me thinking. We've had quite a few light wind days this year in the med and quite a few of those upwind. The concept of a more efficient close reaching sale is very appealing indeed and with a more user friendly G2 system it is hoped we could reduce our time under motor. The existing G2 torsion cable and possibly some of the furling system could be used for a straight-luffed furling sail, hence it all starts to make sense.

 

[Magnum]

I think North are proposing we have a G0 not Code Zero, which I assume removes the design constraints referred to in posts above.

http://nsdnn.northsails.com/SailProducts/CruisingSails/GSeriesGennakers/tabid/1915/Default.aspx

 

[rwoofer]

I think North are proposing we have a G0 not Code Zero, which I assume removes the design constraints referred to in posts above.

http://nsdnn.northsails.com/SailProducts/CruisingSails/GSeriesGennakers/tabid/1915/Default.aspx

G0 looks a good compromise as it doesn't appear to need the same luff tension and quite the same amount of roach on the leech. At least the diagram suggests that.

 

[flaming]

I think North are proposing we have a G0 not Code Zero, which I assume removes the design constraints referred to in posts above.

http://nsdnn.northsails.com/SailProducts/CruisingSails/GSeriesGennakers/tabid/1915/Default.aspx

That seems like a sensible choice to me.

 

[Magnum]

Just had a look at the G0 quote and it's a big sail! 182m2 or 1965 sq.ft.

So back to the original question. How can a sail like this do well in light airs close reaching and also broad reaching in 25 knots of wind?

 

[flaming]

Just had a look at the G0 quote and it's a big sail! 182m2 or 1965 sq.ft.

So back to the original question. How can a sail like this do well in light airs close reaching and also broad reaching in 25 knots of wind?

You've got a 60 foot boat. 182m2 is not all that big....

The G0 is a flat sail, it won't look like your G2 when it's up, it'll look like a genoa. It'll also be made out of a heavier cloth. This enables it to take the loads needed to get a straight luff, and the sheet loads. pop quiz - what gives the higher loads, 50sqm of jib upwind in 15kts, or 100sqm of kite downwind in the same? I'll give you a clue - you use the primaries for the jib, and have to put your back into it, but the secondaries for the spinnaker and can spin them relatively easily.

So these characteristics are also ideally suited for a high winds blast reacher. Strong - so it won't explode, and flat, so it's not overly powerful.

Would you actually use it as a blast reacher in 25 knots shorthanded cruising? Probably not, that might spill the gin! Mind you, I'd put money on you never topping the speeds you'd get if you did!

 

[Polux]

I had one made by elvstrom mounted on a light furler.

Very easy to deploy and working well from 45º to 140º apparent wind. It worked well downwind and it was a pity the limit of 15K that they give for the sail. Downwind the boat could take more than the 15K apparent wind (doing about 8.5K speed).

For very light winds the problem is that light winds on the med tend to be highly variable in direction (mostly thermal winds) and that is not an easy sail to have in variable winds.

 

[Koeketiene]

Thanks guys

Great, informative thread.

Never really considered a Code Zero till now. The Hood one in particular looks very good.

It's going on the shopping list (though barring a Euromillions win, at the bottom)

 

[Juniperskip]

Code vs G0

I have a G0 and race on a class 1 with a code0. The G0 is on a light furler and is really a lightish reacher which is easy to use and recover. Code 0 great for racing but we tend to furl away at 10-12 kts true. Too much power over that.

Have a look at inflatable bell mouths for your snuffer if you go that way - reduces weight. Company on the IOW makes them.....

 

[Mrnotming]

Blooper as code 0

I've had the old blooper from the 1/2 tonner for years, so seldom used in racing that it remained in good shape.This year, on a Dufour 36 we used it for an offwind leg in F6 from Toulon to Porquerolles, no other sail was set, and we got 8 knots, wind abaft the beam.Later we kept it going till apparent wind was abeam and it pulled very well in light airs.Thought I would have to recut it to a more respectable shape, but as it worked so well I think I'll leave it alone!
Only having one sheet means less weight on the clew in light airs.It was also easy to douse, being half a spinnaker or thereabouts.
For the Med I miss the light No.1 genoa we used when racing 1/2tonners, it pulled well in confused seas/light winds.
Main thing is to be able to get rid of whatever Code 0 you choose, those furling gadgets with endless lines must be great, though I imagine lots of turns are necessary to get rid of the baloon effect?
Good boating and sailing to all!

 

[fishermantwo]

I've had the old blooper from the 1/2 tonner for years, so seldom used in racing that it remained in good shape.This year, on a Dufour 36 we used it for an offwind leg in F6 from Toulon to Porquerolles, no other sail was set, and we got 8 knots, wind abaft the beam.Later we kept it going till apparent wind was abeam and it pulled very well in light airs.Thought I would have to recut it to a more respectable shape, but as it worked so well I think I'll leave it alone!
Only having one sheet means less weight on the clew in light airs.It was also easy to douse, being half a spinnaker or thereabouts.
For the Med I miss the light No.1 genoa we used when racing 1/2tonners, it pulled well in confused seas/light winds.
Main thing is to be able to get rid of whatever Code 0 you choose, those furling gadgets with endless lines must be great, though I imagine lots of turns are necessary to get rid of the baloon effect?
Good boating and sailing to all!

I have a halftonner with 5 spinnakers though I only use the cruising chute singlehanded.
It also has a staysail that uses the one of the topping lifts for the pole to haul it up and sheets just above the deck to a similar position to the number one genoa. It is meant to use the wasted space under the spinnaker reaching. The idea of a sail similar to a code zero hauled up inside my furling headsail using a spinaker halyard and tacked down to the same point as the staysail to be used for reaching in light airs has been on my mind for awhile. The staysail is Dacron and clumsy to use. Old Blooper or flat reaching spinnaker would be easy to adapt. The idea being to have a sail that reaches the top spreader in height, tack at the staysail position and the clew reaching about mid boom position in ripstock nylon.

 

[Polux]

..
Main thing is to be able to get rid of whatever Code 0 you choose, those furling gadgets with endless lines must be great, though I imagine lots of turns are necessary to get rid of the baloon effect?
Good boating and sailing to all!

No, it's very easy and not much line. It go to the shrouds were it is normally clipped and back to the furler. It is a no end line that turns around. Those gadgets were developed for solo racing sailors and are very useful if you sail solo or with a short crew.

Take a look how easy it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix2UF_yzsOs

There is another interesting sail for cruising, the code D.

It does not point as much but can stand more downwind sailing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sukie8naEuE&feature=related

 

[AliM]

We have a code zero/drifter, which is on a furler (endless line), so it's really easy to handle for two of us. We use it in light winds < ~15 kt app, and it is great fun. It tries to unfurl itself in winds above about 20kt, so we drop it when the wind really picks up, but that's a very easy operation, because it's so light to handle. It flies happily when the app wind is as low as 2kts, and copes with all angles of sail above about 45 degrees. We have goosewinged it with the main, and it works really well, but you have to helm carefully. Its only disadvantage is that it has to be furled to tack - although in very light winds you can manhandle it through the slot in front of the forestay - but you don't really use it when beating, anyway.

We sail two-up, in a 9.4 m boat, East coast, North Sea and Baltic - so a lot different from your circumstances. However, for fun per buck, it's well worth it!

 

[AngusMcDoon]

My bet would be on a lightweight laminate thing cut as an insanely big genoa and mounted on a removeable furler, but sheeting to the spinnaker blocks.

I have used a screacher on a trimaran delivery in the Med. It's basically what you say - huge lightweight laminate genoa on a furler at the end of a long sprit. It was great for the conditions of light winds, from just off a beat to the point where the asymmetric could be used. It enabled sailing in conditions that were otherwise too light with the standard 'white' sails.