Who is at fault?

[greeny]

Ok, today I had a minor incident when returning to my berth. No-one injured, no damage, but there could easily have been.
Returning to my berth in the marina, I turned 90 deg to starboard into the aisle and the wind was astern more or less. Not strong, 8 or 9 knots maybe. My berth is about 10 boats down on the right hand side and boat is starboard to in the berth. I know the wind will blow me off very quickly and the prop kicks to starboard in astern. So I use the approach I normally use with this direction of wind. My plan is to go down the aisle, turn into the berth (no other boat at the moment so plenty of room), stop the boat halfway in and reverse out into the aisle using the prop walk and wind to bring the bow round almost head to wind. The boat is now pointing back the way I came, nose to wind. Basically I just use the berth to turn around. Then I approach my berth from the other direction, which means as I turn and come alongside, the stern is moving towards the pontoon. I stop the the boat in reverse and the prop walk just stops the stern nicely alongside. Jump off and drop the ropes on, no problem done it many times before.
So what happened?
Today as I turned into the aisle no other boats coming out so all ok. Then a trip boat - motor boat about 6 mtres long decides he's coming out out and starts to come down the aisle. By now I am almost at my berth and have initiated the first turn in. I hold up my hand and ask him to stop and wait for me which he does. I continue with the manoevre, slipping the engine into astern and as I glanced behind, the trip boat had decided to try to squeeze through behind me obiously thinking I was in the berth, but it was obvious to anyone that I was not in and secure as I was in the middle of a double berth.
I quickly engaged forward gear and stopped just short of hitting him. Now I'm at the mercy of the wind, which promptly obliges and pushes me onto the next boat down and I catch a stanchion on his anchor. The noise was worse than the damage. The trip boat helmsman shouted at me and wagged his finger, shaking his head. No I didn't take retribution but felt like it.
So, no damage but who would have been liable had there been, say I reversed into the trip boat or had caused damage to the boat downwind of me?

 

[johnalison]

I think it comes under the heading of overtaking boat keeps clear. I'm not sure at what point you realised that he was pushing past, but it would have helped if you had decided at an earlier stage to settle against your neighbour when parallel and fendered. With the wind blowing off the finger this is quite a common option for me and leaves me in an easy position to sort things out. The trip boat shouldn't have passed until you were clearly in because, whatever people say, berthing into a finger berth isn't always easy.

 

[FlyingGoose]

Common sense I suppose. it could be that the other boat just though that you were in. even though clearly in your mind your not , but in situations like this we need to remember that others cannot read minds and do not know how we do things on a regular basis (your Berthing)
You did ask him to wait and he did , but then went so I dont think he was been rude to you just a miscomunication on both parties ,
it happens all the time in every part of life we expect others to know what were doing even if it is blatant .
But we do not all share the same though process.
No idea about rules in a Marina an intresting question , do COLREGS work inside a private waterway , like private land
Maybe some Sea lawyer can tell us
But I always say most accidents can be associated with poor communication (no blame here just my observations through life)

 

[[3889]]

Common sense I suppose. it could be that the other boat just though that you were in. even though clearly in your mind your not , but in situations like this we need to remember that others cannot read minds and do not know how we do things on a regular basis (your Berthing)
You did ask him to wait and he did , but then went so I dont think he was been rude to you just a miscomunication on both parties ,
it happens all the time in every part of life we expect others to know what were doing even if it is blatant .
But we do not all share the same though process.
No idea about rules in a Marina an intresting question , do COLREGS work inside a private waterway , like private land
Maybe some Sea lawyer can tell us
But I always say most accidents can be associated with poor communication (no blame here just my observations through life)

Don't really need a lawyer:
Rule 1a
These Rules shall apply to all vessels upon the high seas and in all waters connected therewith navigable by seagoing vessels.

The colregs work until they are broken. Making ad hoc decisions or gesturing at another vessel is not wise, IMO.

 

[VicS]

Ok, today I had a minor incident
.
.
.
So, no damage but who would have been liable had there been, say I reversed into the trip boat or had caused damage to the boat downwind of me?

You for not giving appropriate sound signals

 

[greeny]

You for not giving appropriate sound signals

Didn't have my horn in my back pocket and couldn't leave the helm to get it.
Appreciate the point but don't think blowing a horn would have changed the situation though or shifted the blame.

 

[greeny]

Don't really need a lawyer:


The colregs work until they are broken. Making ad hoc decisions or gesturing at another vessel is not wise, IMO.

Not sure what the ad hoc decision was that I made and I thought the signal I gave was clear and it seems it was understood because he stopped and waited initially.

 

[greeny]

I think it comes under the heading of overtaking boat keeps clear. I'm not sure at what point you realised that he was pushing past, but it would have helped if you had decided at an earlier stage to settle against your neighbour when parallel and fendered. With the wind blowing off the finger this is quite a common option for me and leaves me in an easy position to sort things out. The trip boat shouldn't have passed until you were clearly in because, whatever people say, berthing into a finger berth isn't always easy.

Didn't have a neighbour to settle against as the berth next door is empty. I could have planned to settle against the pontoon and warp across but should not have needed to. When I planned and initiated the manouevre the way was clear until the trip boat came out into the aisle from several berths down. When he came out I don't even think he knew I was there. He just needed to be somewhere else quickly it seems.

 

[LadyInBed]

You for not giving appropriate sound signals

Funny that you should say that, reading the thread I thought did he make any sound signal.

 

[lw395]

You for not giving appropriate sound signals

Remind me, what is the correct sound signal for
I intend to turn out of the fairway and then come back into it?

I think it's an issue of using a manoeuvre which relies on nobody interrupting.
Plus not seeing the tripper boat soon enough and anticipating what its intentions were. If it had been possible to see him wanting to pass and let him do so before committing to a complex berth entry, that would have been preferrable.

Sometimes marinas are just too much going on in too small a space though.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

It is simple the correct manoeuvre would have been the simple uncomplicated and safe one that had very little chance of anything going wrong. Put the boat into the vacant neighbouring hearth and warp across into your own berth.
Single handed you should prepare for foreseeable events and that would include fendering both sides of the boat so that when faced with a change of circumstances you could change your plans.
You asked the question who was at fault? You were for being unprepared and making a relatively simple manoeuvre into a complicated one and expecting people to understand what you were trying to do.

 

[[70521]]

Didn't have my horn in my back pocket and couldn't leave the helm to get it.
Appreciate the point but don't think blowing a horn would have changed the situation though or shifted the blame.

Do you speak Portuguese? A few words informing everybody what you were about to do would have avoided the situation OR you could have waited for the traffic to clear and complete your manoeuvre.

Everybody is always in such a rush these days.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Ok I say it if not one else will .
Anyone who post here asking who at blame is just asking for trouble.
Everyone knows better , of cause there not the ones who are in that situation at the time with only seconds to decided what to do next .
Good there wasn't any damage .

 

[lw395]

Ok I say it if not one else will .
Anyone who post here asking who at blame is just asking for trouble.
Everyone knows better , of cause there not the ones who are in that situation at the time with only seconds to decided what to do next .
Good there wasn't any damage .

Fair comment.
It takes two to crash into each other.
Other guy was also at fault for not spotting the OP's boat was likely to do something silly.
Maybe he should have spotted clues, like not enough fenders, ensign...

 

[johnalison]

It is simple the correct manoeuvre would have been the simple uncomplicated and safe one that had very little chance of anything going wrong. Put the boat into the vacant neighbouring hearth and warp across into your own berth.
Single handed you should prepare for foreseeable events and that would include fendering both sides of the boat so that when faced with a change of circumstances you could change your plans.
You asked the question who was at fault? You were for being unprepared and making a relatively simple manoeuvre into a complicated one and expecting people to understand what you were trying to do.

I don't think that we are in a position to be sure about that, but in any case, warping across is always the better option. This can be done without effort by using the sheet winch. I'm a bit confused when the OP says that the adjacent berth was empty, though he previously stated that his stanchion met part of another boat.

 

[KellysEye]

It strikes me was wrong he said he would stop but didn't.

 

[Poignard]

A simple misunderstanding. Shit happens.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Fair comment.
It takes two to crash into each other.
Other guy was also at fault for not spotting the OP's boat was likely to do something silly.
Maybe he should have spotted clues, like not enough fenders, ensign...

 

[RupertW]

I’m with the mind reading comment. He could not have known what you normally do but politely stopped until you were on your way in then went past only to be amazed by you suddenly trying to reverse out when you had clearly (from his reasonable point of view) mucked up your manoeuvre and ended up between two berths. Then you compounded your indecision by clouting another boat’s anchor.

It reminds me slightly of when I nearly hit a car on the way into a village when it started turning right without warning or indicating. The guy was angry when I told him he should have indicated. “I live in this village”, he said, “People know I always turn right here”.

 

[RichardS]

Ok I say it if not one else will .
Anyone who post here asking who at blame is just asking for trouble.
Everyone knows better , of cause there not the ones who are in that situation at the time with only seconds to decided what to do next .
Good there wasn't any damage .

That's a perfect summary, Vic.

I would only disagree with one small point in that some people post here asking who is at blame are just asking for a bit of banter.

(Did I ever tell you about the time when I ............... )

Richard