Whitlock replacment parts needed

[razamatz]

Hi

I want to renew one of my universal joint on my steering
Does anybody know of a direct replacment for those 19mm splined universal joint? Lewar charges over 300 euros and Cliff doesnt ship and/or is uncommunicatibe (I ma too far for him in the Canaries) other than saying landrover ones fit but are shorther and weaker....surely there is an automotive/agricultural replacment but without a serial number i could not find a solution.

Also under the cockpit sole I have a bevel gear box which is angled at 45 degree - ie input shaft and output shaft are at 45 degree to each other and the gears inside seem a bit worn from PO neglect
no make or model on the box - anyone know who made them for Whitlock? Manual only shows 90 degree boxes or others

Boat is a Contest 38s ketch

Happy new year to all

 

[geem]

Hi

I want to renew one of my universal joint on my steering
Does anybody know of a direct replacment for those 19mm splined universal joint? Lewar charges over 300 euros and Cliff doesnt ship and/or is uncommunicatibe (I ma too far for him in the Canaries) other than saying landrover ones fit but are shorther and weaker....surely there is an automotive/agricultural replacment but without a serial number i could not find a solution.

Also under the cockpit sole I have a bevel gear box which is angled at 45 degree - ie input shaft and output shaft are at 45 degree to each other and the gears inside seem a bit worn from PO neglect
no make or model on the box - anyone know who made them for Whitlock? Manual only shows 90 degree boxes or others

Boat is a Contest 38s ketch

Happy new year to all

Land Rover Defender steering has the same sized UJs but they are slightly shorter. Apart from that, they are a perfect fit. If the shortness is a problem, it is probably easier to have one of the steering bars lengthened to make up for the shortness of the UJ.

 

[voyager35]

Jaguar E type steering column joints are the right length(i cant remember if it was upper or lower) but dont look as robust I have them as spares but so far haven't needed to fit them. I paid £60 ish each plus postage.

 

[razamatz]

I previously bought a Defender ones (NRC7704) - they are 1cm+ shorter and not as beefy - another issue with them is that the flat bit for the splined rod is 180 degree from the original
Voyager35 - do you remember the part number?

Surely the original replacement can be found somewhere no?

 

[razamatz]

no owner ever changed these? they been on so many boats...

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Hi

I want to renew one of my universal joint on my steering
Does anybody know of a direct replacment for those 19mm splined universal joint? Lewar charges over 300 euros and Cliff doesnt ship and/or is uncommunicatibe (I ma too far for him in the Canaries) other than saying landrover ones fit but are shorther and weaker....surely there is an automotive/agricultural replacment but without a serial number i could not find a solution.

Also under the cockpit sole I have a bevel gear box which is angled at 45 degree - ie input shaft and output shaft are at 45 degree to each other and the gears inside seem a bit worn from PO neglect
no make or model on the box - anyone know who made them for Whitlock? Manual only shows 90 degree boxes or others

Boat is a Contest 38s ketch

Happy new year to all

If you have visually checked the gears and they are worn, then ignore this. If the wear is because you can feel backlash between the bevels, maybe longitudinal play as well, then it could be the shims need to be addressed. The bevels can be fitted to the correct closeness with shims. Basically don’t right off the bevel box. Shims are common, google bevel gearbox shims.

Regarding shorter UJs, the torque tube may be telescopic with a splined fit. Might not be, but my boat has this feature on one of the torque tubes. All the best with your repairs.

Can’t help with parts, sorry.

 

[Supertramp]

I replaced two of these (and a gearbox) all from Lewmar. Expensive. And on assembly the joints were shorter than previously despite using Lewmar and having old part numbers - the numbers had changed and there was poor cross referencing. There was a guy at Lewmar in Portsmouth who knew what he was talking about but the parts came from USA.

I was able to move the torque tubes to give about 7mm more length which was enough to get a good clamp on the splines at each end.

If and when I replace any others I am inclined to find a Land Rover part or similar. I'm sure it would be robust enough.

I have reshimmed one gearbox and its straightforward provided you have access to the bolts and clearance to remove the casing. The shims are already fitted, you remove one to tighten the clearance.

 

[Supertramp]

Checked my records. The UJ was AMK08 part number 89200088 (for 3/4 inch or 19mm splines).

I think this is it (Lewmar part). There are also AMK10's for 7/8 inch splines.

In the 'olden' days I think they came in long and short versions.

 

[geem]

I replaced two of these (and a gearbox) all from Lewmar. Expensive. And on assembly the joints were shorter than previously despite using Lewmar and having old part numbers - the numbers had changed and there was poor cross referencing. There was a guy at Lewmar in Portsmouth who knew what he was talking about but the parts came from USA.

I was able to move the torque tubes to give about 7mm more length which was enough to get a good clamp on the splines at each end.

If and when I replace any others I am inclined to find a Land Rover part or similar. I'm sure it would be robust enough.

I have reshimmed one gearbox and its straightforward provided you have access to the bolts and clearance to remove the casing. The shims are already fitted, you remove one to tighten the clearance.

I removed shims in mine in 2013. The gearboxes had done 44,000nm since reshimming. Last year I pulled the gearboxes off the boat to do the same thing again but I couldn't get the backlash out. The gears had worn. I got new gears that were not a percent fit so had them machined to fit my gearboxes. Now all good. I didn't get around to doing the pedestal bronze gears. This is the only part of the steering system that still has some backlash. I wish I had had the time to sort that as well.
My UJs are all original from what I can tell and there is no wear in them.

 

[Supertramp]

I removed shims in mine in 2013. The gearboxes had done 44,000nm since reshimming. Last year I pulled the gearboxes off the boat to do the same thing again but I couldn't get the backlash out. The gears had worn. I got new gears that were not a percent fit so had them machined to fit my gearboxes. Now all good. I didn't get around to doing the pedestal bronze gears. This is the only part of the steering system that still has some backlash. I wish I had had the time to sort that as well.
My UJs are all original from what I can tell and there is no wear in them.

My problem was salt water getting to the 3 way gearbox underneath the outside wheel from a small leak in the bilge pump sited above it over many years. Two of the UJ's and the gearbox were seriously corroded and I chose to replace (and replace and reroute the bilge pump).

My system has far less use than yours and minimal free play. I did have one UJ come apart which is when I adjusted the torque tube from both ends to ensure enough spline clamped.

Provided you inspect and grease annually it seems a robust system, worth spending on proper parts for peace of mind and longevity. The Mamba direct drive autopilot is a revelation.

 

[geem]

My problem was salt water getting to the 3 way gearbox underneath the outside wheel from a small leak in the bilge pump sited above it over many years. Two of the UJ's and the gearbox were seriously corroded and I chose to replace (and replace and reroute the bilge pump).

My system has far less use than yours and minimal free play. I did have one UJ come apart which is when I adjusted the torque tube from both ends to ensure enough spline clamped.

Provided you inspect and grease annually it seems a robust system, worth spending on proper parts for peace of mind and longevity. The Mamba direct drive autopilot is a revelation.

My autopilot is Raymarine rotary drive running off a motorbike chain and sprocket off one of the a whitlock gearboxes. It works very well with the new ACU400 and EV sensor. I carry spare rotary drive and they do see some serious mileage

 

[razamatz]

Thanks Guys
only 1 UJ's has slight play in it - it was actually very stiff and i removed and oiled untill free - didnt like the amount of rust that came out of the caps so wanted to replace - then bought the landrover one which is 1cm shorter but in a pinch will do the job (it grabs the splined rods at their ends but full length engagment.

the torsion rods have a split pin in them and do look telescopic - but if i remove the split pin and extend the torsion rod - how do I put the pin back? drill a new hole?

only one bevel gear box is worn, and its a 45 degree bulkhead mounted (not directy under the pedestal) - there were no shims, so PO must have removed them in the past.
I managed to regrease and push Uj's closer on both sides of the bevel box so it made some improvment but this will need to be addressed - Lewar catalog doesnt not have any bevel gear box that is 45 degree - they are all 90 degree
and there is no manfacturer label\stamp...looks very industrial cast aluminum box
Wonder how costly will be to cut new gears in a metal shop...

 

[razamatz]

My autopilot is Raymarine rotary drive running off a motorbike chain and sprocket off one of the a whitlock gearboxes. It works very well with the new ACU400 and EV sensor. I carry spare rotary drive and they do see some serious mileage

Can you share a few photo's??
I didnt figure out how the bulkhead plate I have mount to the raymarine motor and align to the sprocket I have - maybe this was an old option or install from whitlock

anyhow I went and installed a raymarine linear drive and it wasnt an easy project with all the angles and limitations

 

[geem]

Can you share a few photo's??
I didnt figure out how the bulkhead plate I have mount to the raymarine motor and align to the sprocket I have - maybe this was an old option or install from whitlock

anyhow I went and installed a raymarine linear drive and it wasnt an easy project with all the angles and limitations

Do you have a gearbox with an input shaft for a autopilot? Its like a T shaped gearbox.

 

[razamatz]

Do you have a gearbox with an input shaft for a autopilot? Its like a T shaped gearbox.

No. between the 45 bevel box and bulkhead there's a sprocket installed and above it a metal frame that i suppose held or was designed to hold a motor - but it doesnt align with raymarine rotary drive to sprocket in a straight vertical line

 

[Moodysailor]

We have all the Whitlock Mamba steering out of our boat and for sale. The external helm had a water leak and corroded internally, it was cheaper and easier for us to replace with Cobra and use the autopilot to steer from inside on the few occasions we want to.

So I will have a lot of used parts for sale, some in good condition, others not so great. All (except for the outer binnacle) are servicable.

 

[geem]

No. between the 45 bevel box and bulkhead there's a sprocket installed and above it a metal frame that i suppose held or was designed to hold a motor - but it doesnt align with raymarine rotary drive to sprocket in a straight vertical line

It may not have been designed for a Raymarine rotary drive. If your boat is older it could have been a Neco drive. These were popular in the 70s and 80s. A far larger cast iron drive unit with a physically large motor

 

[razamatz]

I will try to upload a few photo's of what I have