White or red diesel

Interesting thread and this information may be useful from an extract from a recent Premier Marinas information leaflet :
new EU Fuel Directive came into force on 1st January 2011. Whilst this legislation has not affected the fuel sold at the majority of our marinas, its impending implementation did prompt us to review the fuels we sell and to instigate some changes as reflected in this leaflet. These changes have been made to ensure that our customers are supplied with fuels of the highest possible quality and to comply with the new legislation, where applicable.
ABOUT THE FUELS SOLD AT OUR MARINAS
Premier Marinas is committed to providing high quality fuel products at the best possible price. Aside from maintaining high standards for storing fuel, we also pay particular attention to the source of our fuel supplies and to developments in fuel technology. Site-specific details of the marine diesel we are supplying from January 2011 are as follows.

MARINE DIESEL SOLD AT BRIGHTON AND SOVEREIGN HARBOUR MARINAS
The EU Fuel Directive instituted in January 2011 has not affected the diesel we are able to sell at Brighton and Sovereign Harbour Marinas. These marinas will therefore continue to sell biodiesel-free red diesel containing 1000ppm (parts per million) sulphur. Boat owners should
be aware that this fuel may not comply with legislation outside the UK and customers should seek advice from their destination marina before travelling abroad.

MARINE DIESEL SOLD AT CHICHESTER MARINA
Chichester Marina has been classified by the Department of Transport as ‘not at sea’ and as such, Premier is no longer able to supply high sulphur diesel at this marina. Premier has sourced a consistent supply of a bespoke low sulphur fuel from WP Group’s Marine division (www.wp-marine.co.uk), who source fuels from Esso’s refinery in Fawley, Hampshire. This fuel, ‘Advanced Marine Diesel 10’ contains 10ppm sulphur and, until the middle of 2011, the formula will include trace levels of biodiesel - up to a maximum of 2%. This compares to road diesel that has a typical biodiesel content of 7%.
We understand that some customers may be concerned about the increased risk of biological contamination or “diesel bug” where marine diesel has a biological content.However, extensive research by the European Industry shows that at these levels the biodiesel we provide has little or no effect on fuel operational properties.
That said, we have taken steps to alleviate any concerns that our customers may have by arranging that Advanced
Marine Diesel 10 will also contain Soltron™, an advanced enzyme fuel technology that was developed to work in marine fuel oil to neutralise bacterial growth from contaminants such as ‘Diesel Bug’. Apart from neutralising bacterial growth, Soltron™ also optimises the engine combustion process and, as a further benefit, delivers enhanced fuel efficiency.

MARINE DIESEL SOLD AT SOUTHSEA, GOSPORT, SWANWICK AND PORT SOLENT MARINAS
These marinas are unaffected by the EU Fuel Directive instituted in January 2011 and will continue to sell high sulphur marine diesel that does not contain biodiesel.
The marine diesel sold at these marinas, ‘Advanced Marine Diesel 1000’, will contain Soltron™, an advanced enzyme fuel technology that was developed to work in marine fuel oil to neutralise bacterial growth from contaminants such as ‘Diesel Bug’. Soltron™ also optimises the engine combustion process and, as a further benefit, delivers enhanced fuel efficiency.

Advanced Marine Diesel 1000 is sourced locally from WP Group’s Marine division (www.wp-marine.co.uk), who source fuels from Esso’s refinery in Fawley, Hampshire. Our continued use of Soltron™ in Advanced Diesel 1000 will depend on your feedback and we would be pleased to receive your comments either via our website www.premiermarinas.com/fuels or via the reply-paid card attached to this leaflet

So plenty of choices - although in Chichester after the DOT reclasification I'm sticking to red as don't fancy mixing fuels of different standards and additives which means refueling elsewhere - probably totally unnecessary but just feels better to do so.
 
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AntarcticPilot said:
But I suspect the problem is that most of us aren't using new engines - mine is over 20 years old, and I expect it will keep going for another 20 quite happily. In fact, there's no reason it couldn't go on indefinitely - every wearing part is replaceable or serviceable. There is a vast difference between the modern common rail engine in my car and the Volvo lump under the companionway in Capricious. The former gives incredible fuel economy, but relies utterly on a computer to manage the engine; the latter will run all day under decidedly adverse conditions! The former I most certainly do NOT intend to try and service myself; the latter has been in bits and put back together and works quite happily.

Point is that there is no reason we should expect fuel that works well for the former to be as good for the latter. The engine in my car was designed for modern white diesel - and even that has a prominent notice on the filler saying "No BioDiesel". The Volvo was designed when diesel was the cheapest fuel available, and was usually of pretty variable quality - but definitely didn't include any additives or FAME. I'd imagine that the Volvo will run on pretty much any liquid that will burn (within reason!), but my car's engine doesn't like anything but fuel from the pump - I know; a rather expensive mistake I made was to fill it with petrol :( It did about 100 yards before stopping! No doubt the Volvo would complain - but it would carry on running, and if I tipped some 2-stroke oil in the tank, I am sure it would run fine.
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My engine is about twice the age of yours and since last summer when we left the UK it has been running on Euro White, a couple of hundred litres and a few hundred hours later and if anything it goes better, it certainly starts better. No sign of any bug and no reports of infestations locally. In quite a few of the places we topped up it was very definitely road fuel as the main customers were road vehicles.
 
I'm wondering if the above are worrying unnecessarily.

We have in our boats relatively unstressed diesel engines, a 2lt. unit currently will produce around 80 bhp with a small turbo.

BMW produce a 2lt unit in a road car ( 1 Series 123 ) with twin turbos that produces 203 bhp. and revs to 4,000 + rpm.

Two and a half times the power from the same size unit, which is sold all over the World, including some places where diesel is of doubtful quality. The cars carry a 60,000 mile warranty, so far I have not heard of any problems with fuel in BMW, Mercedes, VW Audi cars.

All using white pump diesel.

60,000 miles is equivalent to about 2,000 hours for a boat unit.

Folks, the old donker probably wont notice.
 
BoyBlue49 said:
I'm wondering if the above are worrying unnecessarily.

We have in our boats relatively unstressed diesel engines, a 2lt. unit currently will produce around 80 bhp with a small turbo.

BMW produce a 2lt unit in a road car ( 1 Series 123 ) with twin turbos that produces 203 bhp. and revs to 4,000 + rpm.

Two and a half times the power from the same size unit, which is sold all over the World, including some places where diesel is of doubtful quality. The cars carry a 60,000 mile warranty, so far I have not heard of any problems with fuel in BMW, Mercedes, VW Audi cars.

All using white pump diesel.

60,000 miles is equivalent to about 2,000 hours for a boat unit.

Folks, the old donker probably wont notice.
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My Nanni 4150HE has now clocked-up 800 hrs, annual filters & oil ect only had to replace the injection elbow to date & HE "O" rings after checking the tubes.
the Kubota base engine is fitted to plant & i have seen the engine @ 6000 hrs with only normal service intervals & all running on RED in harsh conditions.
So Folks dont get too hung-up ;)
 
Exactly sailoman, tractors around this neck of the woods have run on RED diesel for thousands and thousands of hours, it's never the engine that breaks, just so long as they are serviced and high quality oil is used as per manufacturers specifications ( that does not mean expensive Volvo oil from expensive chandlers ) but the equivalent spec from a factors or your local garage. Filters too.
 
The issue, other than the possible diesel bug one due to the increased hygroscopic nature of FAME-containing diesel, is its ultra-low sulphur content. Red diesel has traditionally contained fairly high levels, whereas ULSD contains almost none. Sulphur is an excellent boundary lubricant of steel on steel surfaces, such as in injection pumps and injectors. Equipment that has always run on red has been well lubricated by the sulphur, and new engines have surface treatments to combat such problems. Older engines converting to white, or the new low-sulphur red, might need an additive to replace the sulphur no longer present. There are plenty on sale, or 2-stroke oil may be a cheaper alternative.
 
SimbaDog said:
Whatever happened to refueler :confused:
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I understand he contributed to the Cruising Association ULSD advice. In a recent post in the CA forums he wrote:

'If you are worried about the use of ULSD in your trusty donkey that's been happy on standard Uk Red for years ... then an eggcupful of general lub-oil in a tank will not harm.'

On the FAME issue he pretty much says as Twister Ken said in post #3.
 
QUOTE ....
"MARINE DIESEL SOLD AT SOUTHSEA, GOSPORT, SWANWICK AND PORT SOLENT MARINAS
These marinas are unaffected by the EU Fuel Directive instituted in January 2011 and will continue to sell high sulphur marine diesel that does not contain biodiesel.
The marine diesel sold at these marinas, ‘Advanced Marine Diesel 1000’, will contain Soltron™, an advanced enzyme fuel technology that was developed to work in marine fuel oil to neutralise bacterial growth from contaminants such as ‘Diesel Bug’. Soltron™ also optimises the engine combustion process and, as a further benefit, delivers enhanced fuel efficiency." ... UNQUOTE

_________________________________________________

Glad you posted that ... I only half believed them when they told me about the diesel having Soltron in it from the pump.
 
haydude said:
So let me understand why my engine hasn't broken down after 6 years and 750 hours on white diesel? Since my boat was launched in Europe and there the only diesel available is white, which is the same diesel used in cars. And what about my car, and every car and lorry with diesel engines around running on "white diesel"?
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How about "because FAMEs are only now being introduced into white diesel?"
 
Ubergeekian said:
How about "because FAMEs are only now being introduced into white diesel?"
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Fairly recently, Ford has introduced a warning in the owner's handbook for their diesel cars.
Cars with fuel containing a proportion of bio-diesel should not be stored for longer than 3 months unless an anti-oxidant, ( available from a Ford dealer of course! ) , is added.
Presumably, this acknowledges the recent changes to road fuels, which now contain FAMEs.
My boat fuel stays in the tank a lot longer than 3 months, so it's definitely FAME-free red diesel for me, perhaps with a splash of lube. oil.
 
Not strictly relevant, but I took 5 litres of diesel from a road pump for my Reflex heater last week and was surprised to see it come out green! I mean I know about the red, I've seen the red, but generally one nevers sees the colour of the stuff that goes in the car.
 
Some Dutch marinas have added Soltron for some time. Incidentally, all of us with boats in marinas are not allowed to fill our boats from cans whilst in the marina. I assume all those filling with white are going outside with a cockpit full of cans?!
 
My 1gm10 is mostly used in dumper trucks and cement mixers around the planet. If I was short of diesel I would stick paraffin or whisky in without fear for the engine.

I do understand the fear, but I think people are a little too precious at times wrt yacht put-puts
 
milltech said:
Not strictly relevant, but I took 5 litres of diesel from a road pump for my Reflex heater last week and was surprised to see it come out green! I mean I know about the red, I've seen the red, but generally one nevers sees the colour of the stuff that goes in the car.
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I noticed that at ASDA yesterday when I filled my spare gallon container for the car.

When I bought tax free in Ireland a few years ago it was green, but a much stronger more definite green.
 
DogWatch said:
My 1gm10 is mostly used in dumper trucks and cement mixers around the planet. If I was short of diesel I would stick paraffin or whisky in without fear for the engine.

I do understand the fear, but I think people are a little too precious at times wrt yacht put-puts
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It's probably the case that all of these have been running on good old-fashioned diesel/gas oil with lots of sulphur and no FAME. It will be interesting to see what happens as the new ULSD fuels begin to take hold on the market.
 
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