Which year would you say this boat is?

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I am looking at buying a boat which has been described in all the sales particulars as a 2002 boat. I have just received a copy of the builder's certificate which gives a date of build as 2001. When I questioned this with the broker, he pointed to the fact that the actual HIN (Hull Identification No) ended in 02 and, therefore, by convention within the industry, the boat could be described as a 2002 boat, particularly since the boat wasn't sold and launched until the 2002 season.
Is he right? My only concern is that when I come to sell the boat, I can describe it as a 2002 boat obviously to maximise it's value

 

[BGW]

I am looking at buying a boat which has been described in all the sales particulars as a 2002 boat. I have just received a copy of the builder's certificate which gives a date of build as 2001. When I questioned this with the broker, he pointed to the fact that the actual HIN (Hull Identification No) ended in 02 and, therefore, by convention within the industry, the boat could be described as a 2002 boat, particularly since the boat wasn't sold and launched until the 2002 season.
Is he right? My only concern is that when I come to sell the boat, I can describe it as a 2002 boat obviously to maximise it's value

Does it really make any difference?
I would not pay more for a poorly looked after 2002 boat than a well looked after 2001 boat.
I don't see that one year of age should have any bearing on the price unless there were changes to the model specifications in that time.
You are buying the boat in the condition it is in, and will sell it again in the same circumstances - it will be worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.

 

[omega2]

what difference does a year make, I reckon condition is everything. If you had the money would you buy an ex cruise ship or HMS Brittania?

 

[gjgm]

I am looking at buying a boat which has been described in all the sales particulars as a 2002 boat. I have just received a copy of the builder's certificate which gives a date of build as 2001. When I questioned this with the broker, he pointed to the fact that the actual HIN (Hull Identification No) ended in 02 and, therefore, by convention within the industry, the boat could be described as a 2002 boat, particularly since the boat wasn't sold and launched until the 2002 season.
Is he right? My only concern is that when I come to sell the boat, I can describe it as a 2002 boat obviously to maximise it's value

I would agree that by this age, I dotn think it is that materiel to the boats value.
Maybe this is of interest:
http://www.boattitleanswers.com/?p=5#more-5

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Does it really make any difference?
I would not pay more for a poorly looked after 2002 boat than a well looked after 2001 boat.
I don't see that one year of age should have any bearing on the price unless there were changes to the model specifications in that time.
You are buying the boat in the condition it is in, and will sell it again in the same circumstances - it will be worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.

Thats not a correct comparison. Would you pay the same money for a 2001 boat as for a 2002 boat if they were in the same condition? Yes there comes a point where condition is much more important than year of manufacture but at what point does year of manufacture have no impact on a boat's value? Clearly, a 2009 boat is worth more than a 2008 boat, all things being equal but how many years old does a boat have to be before age is insignificant? My feeling is that there is still a difference in value between a 2001 boat and a 2002 boat, all other things being equal but I'm happy to listen to different opinions and, also, whether the boat I'm describing can be referred to as a 2002 boat

 

[Imperial One]

Hi Mike,

If a hull is moulded after August in any year it can be stamped up as the next years.

Purley for information, a good builder will often leave a hull in a mould to cure for a longer time than some others do.
Atlantic's were often in the mould for three months before being released, this tended to make stress cracks and other defects much less likely.
A ahand built product will take some months to build anyway so a hull ID out of synch with delivery year is not uncommon.

Its a bit like a car maker building a car in Oct or Nov and then shipping them to a field where they stand until the following March to then be sold as new.
It is nothing to worry about.

I would think the boat in question is a late 2001 build delivered 2002.
That said the build certificate should IMHO have the year of delivery to a dealer/first owner on it as that is when it was completed not started.

Hope this helps.

Enjoy your new toy!


Mike.

 

[BGW]

Thats not a correct comparison. Would you pay the same money for a 2001 boat as for a 2002 boat if they were in the same condition? Yes there comes a point where condition is much more important than year of manufacture but at what point does year of manufacture have no impact on a boat's value? Clearly, a 2009 boat is worth more than a 2008 boat, all things being equal but how many years old does a boat have to be before age is insignificant? My feeling is that there is still a difference in value between a 2001 boat and a 2002 boat, all other things being equal but I'm happy to listen to different opinions and, also, whether the boat I'm describing can be referred to as a 2002 boat

I doubt that both boats would be in identical condition after 8 or 9 years.
People make small changes (not all of which I would call improvements) so if they were the same price it would be down to the feel of the boat on a sea trial, evidence of servicing, and general wear and tear on the interior trim and condition of the mechanics/electronics.
I don't know how long you intend to keep the boat, but that will be all the more relevant when you sell as the boat will likely be over 10 years old by then.
If they were absolutely identical and I was unable to make a choice based on anything else, then yes, I would chose the newer model if they were priced the same, but I would not pay more for a boat one year newer if they were identical.

 

[Nautibusiness]

A hull number that ends

A202 was built in January (A) 2002 (2) and is an 02 model.

As Imp1 said, from August the boats are usually stamped with the next years build number so a boat built in August 2001, but with all the features of the 2002 model will be shown with a hull number ending H102 and so on.

 

[DAC]

Agree with imperial as this is the same instance of our's and have seen it on past boats too.

Current boat and some details read 1994 and other 1995. I call it a 95 boat

 

[MapisM]

by convention within the industry, the boat could be described as a 2002 boat, particularly since the boat wasn't sold and launched until the 2002 season.

It's true that you'll always see a 2002 MY boat described as a 2002 boat regardless of the build year.
BUT, it's also true that most seller and their brokers do that without even mentioning the difference, since they know it's unknown to most buyers, who typically just look at the two last digits of the HIN (if anything), and not at the previous ones.
Besides, Imperial One is correct when he says that hulls moulded in August of any year can be marked as +1 model year, as per 33 CFR 181.3:
Date of manufacture means the month and year during which construction or assembly of a boat or item of associated equipment begins.
...(omissis)...
Model year means the period beginning August 1 of any year and ending on July 31 of the following year.
But unfortunately, not all builders comply with that rule, don't ask me why. I've seen boats whose build month was as early as Jan, marked as "+1" model year and delivered in March! Not sure about Ferrettis, though.
And anyway, assuming that the boat was launched in 2002 is not necessarily correct. There's no such rule, and surely any builder/dealer would deliver as early as they can!
Which is the build month (the letter in the fourth from last digit of the HIN)? If earlier than Jul/Aug, I would bet that the boat hit the water sometime during 2001 season. Practically anything Ferretti built in those years was built to order. Or do you have any proof that she was sold and launched in 2002? Mind, the dealer could have used her for months with a TEMP registration, and you'll never know that.
But at the end of the day, re. your concern, obviously you will be entitled to describe her as a 2002 boat anyway - as anyone would!

 

[Nick_H]

If it was first delivered in 2002 then I think it's a moot point, and arguably it is a 2002 boat. It depends I guess on what stage you consider the boat to be "manufactured", when the hull's laid, when the engines go in, when all the bits are on, at sea trial, or at delivery to the customer? The HIN number relates to when the hull is laid I think, but there's lots more to manufacturing a boat than just laying the hull.

The "model year" marketing ploy is a different point altogether though, and i've always thought it's a nonsense, although seems to be the norm.

 

[jfm]

I am looking at buying a boat which has been described in all the sales particulars as a 2002 boat. I have just received a copy of the builder's certificate which gives a date of build as 2001. When I questioned this with the broker, he pointed to the fact that the actual HIN (Hull Identification No) ended in 02 and, therefore, by convention within the industry, the boat could be described as a 2002 boat, particularly since the boat wasn't sold and launched until the 2002 season.
Is he right? My only concern is that when I come to sell the boat, I can describe it as a 2002 boat obviously to maximise it's value

To answer the specific question, I'd say the correct description of the boat is 2002, when you come to sell it

As you know the last 2 HIN digits = model year, and that denotes the spec of the boat. It is entirely normal for a year n boat to have its hull moulded in year n-1, and if I found your boat for sale with a 2001-moulded hull but and 02 model year and you advetrtised it as "2002" I'd think you were perfectly correct. If I was a buyer I might well want an 02 model not an 01 (if spec is different) but I wouldn't care if it was an 01 or an 02 moulded boat

Note, the letter is the mould date. Not the fit out or finish or launch date

Imperial One is incorrect on his "august" reference. The new build year boats start being moulded about May, in order for first deliveries of n model year in September of n-1

My last Sq58 was J304 (october 2003 mould) and I bought it and sold it as an 04. The 04 models had significant spec differences from 03 so it would have been mad to advertise it as 03. Likewise my current boat is a 2009 model year with several spec differences compared with 2008 boats, and it is E809, and when I sell it I will advertise it as a 2009 model, and of course I bought it and paid for a 2009 model. When I sell it, I will happily tell the buyer that it was physically launced in September 2008

 

[MapisM]

Imperial One is incorrect on his "august" reference. The new build year boats start being moulded about May, in order for first deliveries of n model year in September of n-1

R U sure?
The only legal reference I've ever found on this matter is the US Code of Federal Regulations I quoted previously, and according to that Aug is correct. Not that builders seem to care a lot anyway, as I said.

 

[jfm]

R U sure?
The only legal reference I've ever found on this matter is the US Code of Federal Regulations I quoted previously, and according to that Aug is correct. Not that builders seem to care a lot anyway, as I said.

Yes I'm sure. You are reading into those rules (which of course apply in USA only) a prohibition that isn't actually there in the text. Those rules specify that the 2009 model year runs from Aug 08 to Aug 09, but they do NOT prohibit the physical building of a 2009 model year boat prior to August 2008. Thus it is perfectly in compliance with those rules for a boat to be built as mine was: hull mould E8 = May 2008; fit out June-July-Aug 2008; launch September 08, decription of boat "2009 Model Year". It is not correct to say (as Imperial One suggested) that a boat may only be sold as "year n" if its hull is moulded August n-1 or later

 

[Nautibusiness]

R U sure?
The only legal reference I've ever found on this matter is the US Code of Federal Regulations I quoted previously, and according to that Aug is correct. Not that builders seem to care a lot anyway, as I said.

I am pretty sure it varies manufacturer to manufacturer, but is rarely (if ever?) prior to July.

I used to sell Jeanneaus and the first of a model year were G1+1. These would arrive for the August and usually be the first boat show stock sold at Southampton...

 

[MapisM]

You are reading into those rules (which of course apply in USA only) a prohibition that isn't actually there in the text.

I see what you mean re. the CFR text, but what's the point in specifying the timeframe of model year, if not to link it with the building?
Following your train of thought, a builder could sell already now an A011 hull...
And if so, would it be correct to sell such boat as a 2011 in the future?

 

[BGW]

I see what you mean re. the CFR text, but what's the point in specifying the timeframe of model year, if not to link it with the building?
Following your train of thought, a builder could sell already now an A011 hull...
And if so, would it be correct to sell such boat as a 2011 in the future?

I'm still struggling to understand this one.
The 'year' is just a label. It gives an indication of the specs for the model.
It gives no indication of the amount of usage, wear and tear, or how it was looked after.

EDIT: this comment is not directed at you MapisM, jut the thread in general.

 

[Nautibusiness]

I'm still struggling to understand this one.
The 'year' is just a label. It gives an indication of the specs for the model.
It gives no indication of the amount of usage, wear and tear, or how it was looked after.

EDIT: this comment is not directed at you MapisM, jut the thread in general.

There are 2 years listed on the hull number

1) The year the hull came out of the mould
2) The model year she represents

Usage wear and tear are totally different. A hull number would never tell you that.

 

[BGW]

There are 2 years listed on the hull number

1) The year the hull came out of the mould
2) The model year she represents

Usage wear and tear are totally different. A hull number would never tell you that.

That's my whole point (did you read my previous posts?)
The year IMHO is immaterial apart from the perceived 'status' of an X year boat over an older one in the same or better condition.

 

[Nautibusiness]

That's my whole point (did you read my previous posts?)
The year IMHO is immaterial apart from the perceived 'status' of an X year boat over an older one in the same or better condition.

1) Speed read the rest...

2) Not immaterial as any boat will depreciate in time in much the same way as car does (albeit much slower depreciation with a boat).

So a boat will depreciate according to it's condition and it's age. Both are relevent.